3 ms·

I guess I can understand that moving fluid can at the very least dislodge other material around it, but: - how do "the toxins" get out of the cerebro-spinal ca

by megous 7y ago

I guess I can understand that moving fluid can at the very least dislodge other material around it, but: - how do "the toxins" get out of the cerebro-spinal cavities - if the flow is not unidirectional (with new fluid comming in), why would not the toxins just settle at slightly different place, after those fluid movements end - how is the fluid itself cleaned - what about the blood-brain barrier

nighthawk648 7y ago
What’s your background? It seems the answers to these questions are either intuitive or irrelevant. > - how is the fluid itself cleaned? See the intuitive and imaginative answer would say something along the lines of white blood cells would consume the toxins. How is bacteria during an infection cleaned? White blood cells consume them! Why would this point even add to your discourse? It has no relevance. Either the fluid gets cleaned or it doesn’t. Either way there is a correlation between brain health and the fluid. Also it’s not like a fucking snow globe. Or mouth wash. It’s not just a fluid reused and swashed back and forth. Again, this is why I’m asking what your background is. Did you even read the article?
- megous 7y ago
  I read the article, it talks about the brain as if it's a washing machine, which it's not either. Why would it not be relevant? While there are white blood cells in CSF, it's several orders of magnitude less than in blood. Is it enough to clean anything? White blood cells don't pass the brain-blood barrier. So yeah, it's somewhat like a snow-globe for a lot of molecules and cells. So yeah, how is the fluid cleared? Also article states, that there's even less blood flow during the sleep cycle, so at the same time, there's even less opportunity to wash away things that can pass through blood-brain barrier away to the kidneys and out. My background is watching a lot of biology and trying to understand.
  - nighthawk648 7y ago
    > my background is watching a lot of biology and trying to understand. I think while it is okay to ask questions and to be curious you should be careful of imply or imparting logical fallacy and making judgment on such fallacy. Do some research and try to understand more about the CSF and the cleaning process. There are articles out there. Again the research shows correlation, while correlation does not imply causation until you can falsify the hypothesis you should be careful creating bias. Maybe the mere act of the fluid passing around in the brain is enough to dilute and weaken the toxin bonds, which then dilutes the effect over certain areas of the brain. Alzheimer research is very limited, and any insight into the potential cause and effect is important to give funding to. Dissent like the one you are trying to create only harms society.
bregma 7y ago
The handwavium chelates the toxins and they precipitate when the CSF drains into the bloodstream at the choroid plexus. Unfortunately, the precipitate then becomes a constituent of the arterial plaque that will lead to all kinds of hypertension and heart disease. You can't win with handwavium. that's why they never tell you about it.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  I'm going to start using explanations like that when I have to explain anything to my parents.
username90 7y ago
I answered your questions based on what I gathered from wikipedia: > how do "the toxins" get out of the cerebro-spinal cavities It gets caught up in cerebrospinal fluid. Note sure if it is has to be properly dissolved in it or if it also transports mechanically. > if the flow is not unidirectional (with new fluid comming in), why would not the toxins just settle at slightly different place, after those fluid movements end Cerebrospinal fluid is constantly being created and then deposited to the blood stream. According to wikipedia you produce 500 mL a day and there is 125ml at any given time, so the cycling rate is pretty fast if we compare to how long Alzheimer takes to form. > how is the fluid itself cleaned It is extremely filtered blood, so it is basically cleaned blood. In other words it is cleaned in the creation step. > what about the blood-brain barrier Seems entirely unrelated, cerebrospinal fluid seems to be like its own circulation flow where blood doesn't reach. I guess it basically being a lot cleaner blood makes it another layer of protection for these parts of the brain. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid##targetText=Cerebrospinal%20fluid%20(CSF)%20is%20a,absorbed%20in%20the%20arachnoid%20granulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid##targetTex....
- megous 7y ago
  Thanks! Looks like this is also related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system

by megous 7y ago

nighthawk648 7y ago

What’s your background? It seems the answers to these questions are either intuitive or irrelevant. > - how is the fluid itself cleaned? See the intuitive and imaginative answer would say something along the lines of white blood cells would consume the toxins. How is bacteria during an infection cleaned? White blood cells consume them! Why would this point even add to your discourse? It has no relevance. Either the fluid gets cleaned or it doesn’t. Either way there is a correlation between brain health and the fluid. Also it’s not like a fucking snow globe. Or mouth wash. It’s not just a fluid reused and swashed back and forth. Again, this is why I’m asking what your background is. Did you even read the article?

megous 7y ago
I read the article, it talks about the brain as if it's a washing machine, which it's not either. Why would it not be relevant? While there are white blood cells in CSF, it's several orders of magnitude less than in blood. Is it enough to clean anything? White blood cells don't pass the brain-blood barrier. So yeah, it's somewhat like a snow-globe for a lot of molecules and cells. So yeah, how is the fluid cleared? Also article states, that there's even less blood flow during the sleep cycle, so at the same time, there's even less opportunity to wash away things that can pass through blood-brain barrier away to the kidneys and out. My background is watching a lot of biology and trying to understand.
- nighthawk648 7y ago
  > my background is watching a lot of biology and trying to understand. I think while it is okay to ask questions and to be curious you should be careful of imply or imparting logical fallacy and making judgment on such fallacy. Do some research and try to understand more about the CSF and the cleaning process. There are articles out there. Again the research shows correlation, while correlation does not imply causation until you can falsify the hypothesis you should be careful creating bias. Maybe the mere act of the fluid passing around in the brain is enough to dilute and weaken the toxin bonds, which then dilutes the effect over certain areas of the brain. Alzheimer research is very limited, and any insight into the potential cause and effect is important to give funding to. Dissent like the one you are trying to create only harms society.

bregma 7y ago

The handwavium chelates the toxins and they precipitate when the CSF drains into the bloodstream at the choroid plexus. Unfortunately, the precipitate then becomes a constituent of the arterial plaque that will lead to all kinds of hypertension and heart disease. You can't win with handwavium. that's why they never tell you about it.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
I'm going to start using explanations like that when I have to explain anything to my parents.

username90 7y ago

I answered your questions based on what I gathered from wikipedia: > how do "the toxins" get out of the cerebro-spinal cavities It gets caught up in cerebrospinal fluid. Note sure if it is has to be properly dissolved in it or if it also transports mechanically. > if the flow is not unidirectional (with new fluid comming in), why would not the toxins just settle at slightly different place, after those fluid movements end Cerebrospinal fluid is constantly being created and then deposited to the blood stream. According to wikipedia you produce 500 mL a day and there is 125ml at any given time, so the cycling rate is pretty fast if we compare to how long Alzheimer takes to form. > how is the fluid itself cleaned It is extremely filtered blood, so it is basically cleaned blood. In other words it is cleaned in the creation step. > what about the blood-brain barrier Seems entirely unrelated, cerebrospinal fluid seems to be like its own circulation flow where blood doesn't reach. I guess it basically being a lot cleaner blood makes it another layer of protection for these parts of the brain. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid##targetText=Cerebrospinal%20fluid%20(CSF)%20is%20a,absorbed%20in%20the%20arachnoid%20granulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebrospinal_fluid##targetTex....

megous 7y ago
Thanks! Looks like this is also related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system