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Glad to see reasonable discussion is still alive and well on HN. /s

p1necone 7y ago
The current US government is blatantly and overtly criminal, it seems reasonable to me to assume anyone arguing in their favor is arguing in bad faith and disengage.
- tomschlick 7y ago
  > it seems reasonable to me to assume anyone arguing in their favor is arguing in bad faith and disengage. I'm not arguing in their favor. I would like nothing more than for us to have strong border control and a functional immigration system that isn't overloaded with false asylum claims so that the real ones can get through. We definitely need to overhaul things like the H1B programs as well. My argument here is that no country's immigration system could handle this type of steady influx of 100k+ people per month [1] exploiting the asylum claims. Many of which only claim such after they illegally cross (yes i know you can technically claim whenever, but that's mighty convenient after crossing illegally). The systems were not built for this kind of thing. Basically under current law you have the choice to detain people until their asylum case is heard or release them on their own recognizance inside the country and hope they return for court. The family separation thing has happened because of a court ruling saying that kids and adults couldn't be detained together because of abuse concerns. If the same thing happened to Canada their systems would be in shambles just like ours. There needs to be a mixture of border security and fixes to immigration law to remedy this problem but none of that can happen while Congress sits on it's hands playing politics. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
heyoni 7y ago
There are plenty of good rebuttals you’ve conveniently missed. Also, 300k/year was the maximum in 2000.
- tomschlick 7y ago
  > There are plenty of good rebuttals you’ve conveniently missed. I got 5 replies in a span of 5 minutes. I can't respond that fast with the detail and nuance of my positions. > Also, 300k/year was the maximum in 2000. And now we are up to 500k last year, and another 950k this year. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
  - heyoni 7y ago
    Yep, we’re having a record year but it’s been much lower for the last 20 years (going by memory).
    - tomschlick 7y ago
      And both sides have been claiming it has been a problem for all of those years. Every president since Regan has talked about the problems at the border and Congress has done barely anything to both enforce the laws, and make the system smoother for immigrants.

The current US government is blatantly and overtly criminal, it seems reasonable to me to assume anyone arguing in their favor is arguing in bad faith and disengage.

tomschlick 7y ago
> it seems reasonable to me to assume anyone arguing in their favor is arguing in bad faith and disengage. I'm not arguing in their favor. I would like nothing more than for us to have strong border control and a functional immigration system that isn't overloaded with false asylum claims so that the real ones can get through. We definitely need to overhaul things like the H1B programs as well. My argument here is that no country's immigration system could handle this type of steady influx of 100k+ people per month [1] exploiting the asylum claims. Many of which only claim such after they illegally cross (yes i know you can technically claim whenever, but that's mighty convenient after crossing illegally). The systems were not built for this kind of thing. Basically under current law you have the choice to detain people until their asylum case is heard or release them on their own recognizance inside the country and hope they return for court. The family separation thing has happened because of a court ruling saying that kids and adults couldn't be detained together because of abuse concerns. If the same thing happened to Canada their systems would be in shambles just like ours. There needs to be a mixture of border security and fixes to immigration law to remedy this problem but none of that can happen while Congress sits on it's hands playing politics. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

heyoni 7y ago

There are plenty of good rebuttals you’ve conveniently missed. Also, 300k/year was the maximum in 2000.

tomschlick 7y ago
> There are plenty of good rebuttals you’ve conveniently missed. I got 5 replies in a span of 5 minutes. I can't respond that fast with the detail and nuance of my positions. > Also, 300k/year was the maximum in 2000. And now we are up to 500k last year, and another 950k this year. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
- heyoni 7y ago
  Yep, we’re having a record year but it’s been much lower for the last 20 years (going by memory).
  - tomschlick 7y ago
    And both sides have been claiming it has been a problem for all of those years. Every president since Regan has talked about the problems at the border and Congress has done barely anything to both enforce the laws, and make the system smoother for immigrants.