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I could write a novel about this. My father was exposed to and handled Agent Orange in Vietnam. An uncle, as well. My uncle passed in 2007, riddled with cancers

I could write a novel about this. My father was exposed to and handled Agent Orange in Vietnam. An uncle, as well. My uncle passed in 2007, riddled with cancers, fighting the VA every step of the way. That man served nearly 35 years before retiring. Their generation coined the phrase "Delay, deny, and hope that we die." due to their experiences with the VA. I decided not to be a helpless by-stander when it was my fathers time to contend with the VA. I took nearly 3 years off of my life and moved back home to help him. He was eventually able to successfully obtain a disability rating and was able to get prior/existing health issues linked to his exposure, which secured disability back pay to the 90s. All of this, his experience and the back pay, specifically, is something of an outlier, as we understand it. As we understand it, most folks don't have the resources to navigate the system successfully. It wasn't a massive financial windfall, but it meant that my parents future was financially secure (their finances were in ruins by the mid-00s) and once he was mobile again, with his health issues under control and with an effective management plan in place, I was able to get back on with my own life. There are also inter-generational effects with Agent Orange, but they're not very well understood (to my knowledge). That frightens me today, especially now that I've had my own children. There's a whole other dynamic there, too, in that I also served, and that I've been exposed to burn pits and a lot of diesel fumes and high RF environments and some solvents and etc... I feel like it's an inevitability in my own life's story that I'll eventually have to contend with the VA, as well.

linuxftw 7y ago
Imagine the effect on the poor Vietnamese :( My Grandfather was killed by the stuff too. He had a condition that wasn't one of the conditions that the VA established as linked to it. I've found some other cases online of other service members that had what he had. The other game the VA plays is they'll dispute you were ever even exposed to it in the first place.
- scruple 7y ago
  > Imagine the effect on the poor Vietnamese :( I do, very frequently, in fact. I have many friends who are Vietnamese today (I live in Orange County, CA), and they have many stories about extended family in Vietnam and elsewhere about birth defects and such. My wife's mother is Vietnam-born Chinese. She came to the US as a refugee. They have family that was exposed as innocents caught in the middle of the conflict, just trying to escape with their lives. There are countless generations of people in Vietnam, and now abroad, that will never be properly acknowledged, let alone compensated, for what we did to them. And, in some cases, what is still happening to them today, as the byproducts of the herbicide can still be found in their food supply.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    > let alone compensated, for what we did to them Not 'we.' The war criminals running the government.
    - afthonos 7y ago
      We don’t get to wash our hands of this. Particularly when we have neither brought them to justice nor recognized any transnational authority’s jurisdiction to do so.
      - linuxftw 7y ago
        Maybe you're culpable, but not me. I've never voted for any politician that voted for the Iraq war, and I wasn't around for Vietnam. I advocate for the peaceful dissolution of the federal government because I believe it's unfixable and unaccountable. I believe the de-facto two-party system is illegitimate.
        scarejunba 7y ago
        Right, but culpability is like a spectrum. If I actually did it, I'm obviously the villain. But if I prosper from its effects while only opposing it in the abstract, then it's not obvious to me that I've actually reasonably washed my hands of it.
        PureParadigm 7y ago
        It happened whether you "prospered" from it or not. How does that alone make you any more culpable? You could argue a baby born today might have indirectly benefited from it. Is that baby culpable to any extent?
        jMyles 7y ago
        Today's kids have a big responsibility in front of them. It won't be easy to speak truth to the power that lies in the governments of the USA and China and elsewhere, but it's absolutely obvious that these entities don't intend to serve the interests of these children or their parents. It is today's kids who must grow up ready to live in the absence of a powerful state. Even if they aren't culpable, they are responsible.
debt 7y ago
The VA prioritizes veterans who served in areas of Vietnam that were exposed to Agent Orange. They have a special designation that is, I believe, the highest priority of care at the VA. Second only to something like WWII veterans.
- scruple 7y ago
  Today? Sure, I'd believe that. I'll try searching around, this is the first I've heard of it. edit/ Cursory search seems to suggest this is fairly new -- I'm only seeing hits from news in 2019. Better late than never, but many servicemembers have languished and died in the meantime while the VA administration continues to delay processing. I'm glad that they're at least not fighting so hard against service-connected illnesses and disability ratings. But, that still doesn't tell the full story, either. I'd be curious to learn what disability % different illnesses and times in service, branches, etc... are receiving. That could get closer to telling the truth. Many of the Vietnam veterans my father and I know are < 50%, despite being incapable of working due to their service-connected health issues (nevermind the ageism, nevermind the loss of industry where these people live taking decent jobs away from entire regions, nevermind the fact they wouldn't be considered anyway because of their health issues, etc...). If you attempt to get a new rating, you can end up rated lower than where you started. And, so, it disincentivizes otherwise deserving people from pushing their luck, as it were.
  - opwieurposiu 7y ago
    My brother hurt his back on a training mission in the army. He was discharged and worked for a few years doing HVAC. His back was hurting, he kept going to the VA. Eventually they gave him $3000 A month disability. He was set for life! His own personal UBI. One little problem, they also gave him opioids for the back pain. With no need for a job too keep him busy, it only took six months for the opioids to kill him. I wrote this anecdote commend @scruple on taking the time to get his dad fixed up, and so that others in a similar place might recognize the situation and act. I do not think the VA did anything wrong in this case. I had a chance to get my brother to move in with me, but I failed to do so.

linuxftw 7y ago

Imagine the effect on the poor Vietnamese :( My Grandfather was killed by the stuff too. He had a condition that wasn't one of the conditions that the VA established as linked to it. I've found some other cases online of other service members that had what he had. The other game the VA plays is they'll dispute you were ever even exposed to it in the first place.

scruple 7y ago
> Imagine the effect on the poor Vietnamese :( I do, very frequently, in fact. I have many friends who are Vietnamese today (I live in Orange County, CA), and they have many stories about extended family in Vietnam and elsewhere about birth defects and such. My wife's mother is Vietnam-born Chinese. She came to the US as a refugee. They have family that was exposed as innocents caught in the middle of the conflict, just trying to escape with their lives. There are countless generations of people in Vietnam, and now abroad, that will never be properly acknowledged, let alone compensated, for what we did to them. And, in some cases, what is still happening to them today, as the byproducts of the herbicide can still be found in their food supply.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  > let alone compensated, for what we did to them Not 'we.' The war criminals running the government.
  - afthonos 7y ago
    We don’t get to wash our hands of this. Particularly when we have neither brought them to justice nor recognized any transnational authority’s jurisdiction to do so.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      Maybe you're culpable, but not me. I've never voted for any politician that voted for the Iraq war, and I wasn't around for Vietnam. I advocate for the peaceful dissolution of the federal government because I believe it's unfixable and unaccountable. I believe the de-facto two-party system is illegitimate.
      - scarejunba 7y ago
        Right, but culpability is like a spectrum. If I actually did it, I'm obviously the villain. But if I prosper from its effects while only opposing it in the abstract, then it's not obvious to me that I've actually reasonably washed my hands of it.
        PureParadigm 7y ago
        It happened whether you "prospered" from it or not. How does that alone make you any more culpable? You could argue a baby born today might have indirectly benefited from it. Is that baby culpable to any extent?
        jMyles 7y ago
        Today's kids have a big responsibility in front of them. It won't be easy to speak truth to the power that lies in the governments of the USA and China and elsewhere, but it's absolutely obvious that these entities don't intend to serve the interests of these children or their parents. It is today's kids who must grow up ready to live in the absence of a powerful state. Even if they aren't culpable, they are responsible.

debt 7y ago

The VA prioritizes veterans who served in areas of Vietnam that were exposed to Agent Orange. They have a special designation that is, I believe, the highest priority of care at the VA. Second only to something like WWII veterans.

scruple 7y ago
Today? Sure, I'd believe that. I'll try searching around, this is the first I've heard of it. edit/ Cursory search seems to suggest this is fairly new -- I'm only seeing hits from news in 2019. Better late than never, but many servicemembers have languished and died in the meantime while the VA administration continues to delay processing. I'm glad that they're at least not fighting so hard against service-connected illnesses and disability ratings. But, that still doesn't tell the full story, either. I'd be curious to learn what disability % different illnesses and times in service, branches, etc... are receiving. That could get closer to telling the truth. Many of the Vietnam veterans my father and I know are < 50%, despite being incapable of working due to their service-connected health issues (nevermind the ageism, nevermind the loss of industry where these people live taking decent jobs away from entire regions, nevermind the fact they wouldn't be considered anyway because of their health issues, etc...). If you attempt to get a new rating, you can end up rated lower than where you started. And, so, it disincentivizes otherwise deserving people from pushing their luck, as it were.
- opwieurposiu 7y ago
  My brother hurt his back on a training mission in the army. He was discharged and worked for a few years doing HVAC. His back was hurting, he kept going to the VA. Eventually they gave him $3000 A month disability. He was set for life! His own personal UBI. One little problem, they also gave him opioids for the back pain. With no need for a job too keep him busy, it only took six months for the opioids to kill him. I wrote this anecdote commend @scruple on taking the time to get his dad fixed up, and so that others in a similar place might recognize the situation and act. I do not think the VA did anything wrong in this case. I had a chance to get my brother to move in with me, but I failed to do so.