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I think it is because human rights abuses by the US government are becoming more common. Or at least more brazen.
by jacobsenscott 7y ago
I think it is because human rights abuses by the US government are becoming more common. Or at least more brazen.
- baggy_trough 7y agoWhat an absurd thing to believe.
- shadowgovt 7y agoThere are concentration camps on the southern US border.
- baggy_trough 7y agoThat kind of characterization is hysterical nonsense.
- shadowgovt 7y agoThat kind of characterization is definitional. See: the Japanese Internment camps the US ran during World War II.
- baggy_trough 7y agoIt's really outrageous to characterize them that way. It minimizes the Holocaust.
- mattsfrey 7y agoIt is outrageous because in both instances we're talking about actual legal citizens being persecuted by their own government for belonging to an ethnic group, not a group of foreign nationals that illegally entered the country and are being held temporarily for criminal prosecution.
- shadowgovt 7y agoThat's irrelevant. The root cause of running a concentration camp is unimportant; they're human beings and deserve to be treated with dignity. As it stands, the US is failing to hold them to the standards we hold even incarcerated prisoners, and they haven't been convicted of any crime. That's outrageous. Treating some humans under one's jurisdiction as more "human" because they are citizens is a severe anti-pattern.
- mattsfrey 7y agoIf the conditions of imprisonment are all that matter then the Japanese internment wasn't that big of a deal, they were treated quite well and humanely and in relatively good living conditions. But of course that's not the point. The point is a group of people were persecuted arbitrarily by their government for belonging to an ethnic group, something held today as universally reprehensible. You are using loaded language to capitalize on this connection and that is what's outrageous. That is _the_ reason you are using this term "concentration camp", and it just makes you look ridiculous to anyone that is still applying logic to the situation and not just engaging in hyperbole to make an emotional appeal.
- shadowgovt 7y ago"The Japanese internment wasn't that big of a deal" is certainly a claim a person can make, but I don't feel compelled to continue discoursing with someone who does.
- mattsfrey 7y agoAn outrageous misquote ignoring all surrounding context.. you're good at this outrageous thing
- shadowgovt 7y agoThe Holocaust wasn't the only situation involving concentration camps in history. The US ran concentration camps during World War II for Japanese-Americans more or less because of racism coupled with fear of espionage or anti-nationalism; that's just fact in terms of the definition of these terms. In fact, when discussing contemporary US policy, it's the most relevant historical comparison. In addition to running concentration camps (unacceptable), the nazi party also ran forced labor camps and death camps, which distinguishes the horrors they inflicted from the horrors the US inflicted on its Japanese-American population. But to ignore the US's history of depriving liberty from classes of people when it suits us opens up its own can of dangers that is (one hopes) smaller than the dangers of nazi ideology but should not be ignored.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- baggy_trough 7y agoI don't think the immigrant detention centers measure up to the definition at, for example, the Encylopedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp
- shadowgovt 7y agoI remember in 2016 when people were predicting people would be debating the definition of concentration camp during this administration. Here we are.
- baggy_trough 7y agoIf you want to avoid that debate, then maybe cool it with the exaggerated claims?
- shadowgovt 7y agoI'd like to avoid it by not having ICE run something that could even raise the question. They're even using some of the same facilities that were used for Japanese internment.
- malvosenior 7y agoThat makes sense since those same people are now labeling detention centers "concentration camps". It's tautological.
- shadowgovt 7y agoInteresting claim, but I don't think it's true. Source?
- malvosenior 7y agoI’m referring in part to your own comments. You said people would be debating the definition of concentration camps then you called a detention center for illegal immigrants a “concentration camp”. It is you who is trying to change the definition and fit it where it’s convenient to your politics.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 7y agoEvery country has concentration camps then. Not a single country is so relaxed about illegal immigration. EU dumps asylum seekers on Greek Islands. Or what are these perfect countries that accept everyone unconditionally?
- shadowgovt 7y agoI, for one, am not calling for perfection. But conditions inferior to those we hold convicted felons in for people who have been convicted of no crime are unacceptable. I don't think every country in the world is doing nearly as poorly as the United States is right now, but even if they were, as a citizen of the United States, I care a lot more personally about the legacy my own country is leaving behind. "We're doing as good as everybody else" just isn't good enough when you're one of the richest countries on the planet. You can afford to be held to a better standard.
- standardUser 7y agoI don't think there is evidence to back that up, especially once you dig in to the actions of the federal government in the 60's, 70's and 80's. But people, mostly young people, are clearly more vocal about pushing back when abuses come to light.
- killface 7y agoI think also in the age of internet, cell phones, constant surveillance, and more, we're also much more aware of these atrocities and the governments do not always have the power to simply hide it. I mean: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expose-chinas-network-of-re-education-camps/10432924 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-01/satellite-images-expo... It's hard to imagine the average person having access to this kind of reporting 40 years ago. (the 1990 was 30 years ago next year...)