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Fresh produce is sensitive to logistic snags but aren't grains much more robust and thus able to better withstand delays caused by temporary infrastructure fail

Fresh produce is sensitive to logistic snags but aren't grains much more robust and thus able to better withstand delays caused by temporary infrastructure failures?

bluGill 7y ago
Only if it is temporary. A worst case lock failure will knock out river transport for years. Eventually you run out of wheat on the other side of the failure. Of course there are options, but they are vastly more expensive (ie thousands of trucks).
- protomyth 7y ago
  Rail will take over for barge before they would use trucks.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Rail will try, but doesn't scale as fast: tracks are not always running in the right direction, and the best maintained tracks are already busy. Eventually rail can have more capacity, but trucks can scale faster.
    - protomyth 7y ago
      A Mississippi barge is about 1,500 tons capacity, a truck is about 25/26 tons, and each rail car is about 100 tons. Barges are grouped in 15 barge tows, and trains are grouped in 90 to 125 car unit trains. Its a bit easier to get the trains than that many trucks. Also considering that can do barges can almost always do trains. Its not ideal and barge would be preferred, obviously.
    - hollerith 7y ago
      >tracks are not always running in the right direction If the alternative is to let the grain rot, it does not matter much what direction the tracks run in; all that matters is that the the rail network connects some destination willing to buy the grain with where the grain is now.
jnurmine 7y ago
For grains and similar items, I guess it really depends on the amount of available storage on the supply side and the duration of the failure. The grains themselves might withstand the delays but the disruptions would still be present (demand side lack of availability and increased prices). The reasoning is: 1. If the usual way is to always ship out the grains, then presumably the supply side currently lacks storage facilities to store a lot of extra grain. I doubt anyone can keep such facilities around and empty "just in case". 2. Whatever the supply-side storage capacity is, it could still fill up if the stores were not emptied fast enough. And here the emptying process was part of the infrastructural failure. 3. The use of alternative transports could help but would cost more, otherwise everything would be already transported using these methods.
protomyth 7y ago
Well, they would use rail or at worst truck, but grain is often stored outside in piles. There is a photoshopped picture of one of these piles with a skier with the title "Ski Nebraska". A lot of farmers also have non-trivial storage to get a better sale price. There is remarkable redundancy in the food chain.
- jnurmine 7y ago
  Will grain piled outdoors survive for very long without getting moldy or attacked by animals which like grain (like birds)..? Maybe it does, I'm no farmer!
  - protomyth 7y ago
    There is a certain amount of loss, but the grain needs to be good enough to ship to someone else and they will have a grain contract that lists factors they will accept. They do test for molds and other things[1]. There is a article[2] from 2016 on the practice or research "grain piles". 1) https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/fgis-pdf-handbooks https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/fgis-pdf-handb... (look at the grain inspection handbook) 2) https://agfax.com/2016/10/14/outdoor-piles-of-harvested-grain-are-a-common-sight-dtn/ https://agfax.com/2016/10/14/outdoor-piles-of-harvested-grai...

Fresh produce is sensitive to logistic snags but aren't grains much more robust and thus able to better withstand delays caused by temporary infrastructure failures?

bluGill 7y ago

Only if it is temporary. A worst case lock failure will knock out river transport for years. Eventually you run out of wheat on the other side of the failure. Of course there are options, but they are vastly more expensive (ie thousands of trucks).

protomyth 7y ago
Rail will take over for barge before they would use trucks.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Rail will try, but doesn't scale as fast: tracks are not always running in the right direction, and the best maintained tracks are already busy. Eventually rail can have more capacity, but trucks can scale faster.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    A Mississippi barge is about 1,500 tons capacity, a truck is about 25/26 tons, and each rail car is about 100 tons. Barges are grouped in 15 barge tows, and trains are grouped in 90 to 125 car unit trains. Its a bit easier to get the trains than that many trucks. Also considering that can do barges can almost always do trains. Its not ideal and barge would be preferred, obviously.
  - hollerith 7y ago
    >tracks are not always running in the right direction If the alternative is to let the grain rot, it does not matter much what direction the tracks run in; all that matters is that the the rail network connects some destination willing to buy the grain with where the grain is now.

jnurmine 7y ago

For grains and similar items, I guess it really depends on the amount of available storage on the supply side and the duration of the failure. The grains themselves might withstand the delays but the disruptions would still be present (demand side lack of availability and increased prices). The reasoning is: 1. If the usual way is to always ship out the grains, then presumably the supply side currently lacks storage facilities to store a lot of extra grain. I doubt anyone can keep such facilities around and empty "just in case". 2. Whatever the supply-side storage capacity is, it could still fill up if the stores were not emptied fast enough. And here the emptying process was part of the infrastructural failure. 3. The use of alternative transports could help but would cost more, otherwise everything would be already transported using these methods.

protomyth 7y ago

Well, they would use rail or at worst truck, but grain is often stored outside in piles. There is a photoshopped picture of one of these piles with a skier with the title "Ski Nebraska". A lot of farmers also have non-trivial storage to get a better sale price. There is remarkable redundancy in the food chain.

jnurmine 7y ago
Will grain piled outdoors survive for very long without getting moldy or attacked by animals which like grain (like birds)..? Maybe it does, I'm no farmer!
- protomyth 7y ago
  There is a certain amount of loss, but the grain needs to be good enough to ship to someone else and they will have a grain contract that lists factors they will accept. They do test for molds and other things[1]. There is a article[2] from 2016 on the practice or research "grain piles". 1) https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/fgis-pdf-handbooks https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/fgis-pdf-handb... (look at the grain inspection handbook) 2) https://agfax.com/2016/10/14/outdoor-piles-of-harvested-grain-are-a-common-sight-dtn/ https://agfax.com/2016/10/14/outdoor-piles-of-harvested-grai...