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I mean, Signal is open source and not owned by Facebook, so I'm not sure why anybody uses WhatsApp instead.

vocatus_gate 7y ago
It's a much better app, user experience-wise. I prefer Signal for obvious reasons, but WhatsApp is easier to use (and has a much better web interface).
- Canada 7y ago
  I agree, but when the people you want to talk to are on WhatsApp already...
maximente 7y ago
they have features signal has not yet copied and probably won't (statuses e.g.)
- dylan604 7y ago
  The main one being actual users
shantly 7y ago
Last I checked Signal's UX was worse enough that I'd be fighting a real uphill battle to get my friend group to switch.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  That's reasonable, I suppose I'm lucky to have a friend group that universally prefers open source sorftware to good UX -- there was never really a question for us.
  - smeyer 7y ago
    It's a little eye opening to me that anyone could have a friend group that "universally prefers open source software to good UX". I have and use Signal with some friends, but there are also loads of people I communicate with who couldn't even tell you what open source software is, let alone articulate a preference for it over good UX. Are all of your friends software engineers and/or technophiles?
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      I don't have many friends, TBH. I've got 2 friends who use normal SMS, and a group of 6 friends (not including myself) who use Signal; of those, three of them are software developers and one of them uses R at work though software development isn't her primary job. The other two are probably more aware of open source software than they would otherwise be due to peer exposure. It's also worth noting that one of my developer friends got the rest of us into programming, though three of us had been running Linux before that -- it's not that I've disproportionately made friends with software developers, it's that a group of people I'd been hanging out with for years assimilated a software developer who converted the rest of us. There may have been some MDMA involved in that. Edit in case of potential ambiguity: s/a couple of/2
    - emerongi 7y ago
      Exactly. When all your friends are already using Facebook and you start telling them to use Signal instead... well, I can tell you from experience that it's almost impossible to break the status quo. What has happened to me is that usually there's 1-2 persons from each friend group who care enough that they will relay information to you through Signal. I still don't have a friend group that is 100% Signal. For that to happen, more than 50% of the group would need to care enough about privacy to completely abandon other communication channels and accept the cost of switching platforms. The rest would probably follow. In reality, I don't have a single non-tech friend who would give a fuck about encryption. You tell them about Signal and they go "cool", that's it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- 0xdeadb00f 7y ago
  The UX is fine IMO. They've been improving it. I have a couple non tech savvy friends that use it and they're fine with it.
kace91 7y ago
Because everyone uses it. Once a social app becomes mainstream it gets a giant advantage due to the amount of inertia needed to switch entire social circles to a new platform. Most new social platforms that make it big don't really take over older ones, they just grab a younger generation - usually just by being the network their parents aren't in.
tomcooks 7y ago
People use it because other people use it. Signal's lack of a web interface is another reason. Moreover, Telegram took the users that left WhatsApp for more secure alternatives (even though Telegrams homemade encryption doesn't look promising). Same reasons why a lot of people don't leave Facebook.
cardiffspaceman 7y ago
Not only are there network effects, but as you go through various cities in Latin America you will notice on the billboards that mobile service providers advertise "free" WhatsApp. As a result of the success of those ads, your contacts in that region will prefer WhatsApp to other media.
wp381640 7y ago
You don't understand why people use a communications app with 1.6 billion users as opposed to one with likely less than a million? It's network effects In my own anecdotal experience Signal ranks way below Viber (popular with migrants + expats), Wickr (popular with people doing illegal things and corporate executive scheming), Telegram (popular in crypto, scammers and terrorists) The only real broad use of Signal i've seen is amongst journalists - and even there i'm not certain how much they actually use it or if it's just the "i'm crypto aware" version of a blue checkmark for their Twitter profiles
rodgerd 7y ago
The Signal client is open source. The back end not so much. A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie".
- frabbit 7y ago
  And most of that is coming from MattGreen and Ptacek.
- eitland 7y ago
  > A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie". Let me come out and defend Signal (I usually defend Telegram, but I don't think we should be unfair to anyone): As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken. If I have understood it correctly an as long as that is true, NSA, FSB and the Chinese might be running the message handling together and there's still no reason to be worried that your messages will be intercepted in transit. Disclaimer: - as far as I am aware Signal is the safest messenger available for everyone - even if all the above is true you are still trusting them with your metadata. I think they are good people. If you are scared of them, be aware that they know who you talk to and when. This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware. - being good at crypto doesn't make them immune to bugs. There was a nasty vulnerability a few months ago that was remotely exploitable. Again, this is the same, or even worse for every other messenger.
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    > This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware. It's too bad bitmessage can't scale :/
  - f1refly 7y ago
    >As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken. You have to check xmpp with omemo, it has libre servers and in federated

It's a much better app, user experience-wise. I prefer Signal for obvious reasons, but WhatsApp is easier to use (and has a much better web interface).

Canada 7y ago
I agree, but when the people you want to talk to are on WhatsApp already...

maximente 7y ago

they have features signal has not yet copied and probably won't (statuses e.g.)

dylan604 7y ago
The main one being actual users

shantly 7y ago

Last I checked Signal's UX was worse enough that I'd be fighting a real uphill battle to get my friend group to switch.

blotter_paper 7y ago
That's reasonable, I suppose I'm lucky to have a friend group that universally prefers open source sorftware to good UX -- there was never really a question for us.
- smeyer 7y ago
  It's a little eye opening to me that anyone could have a friend group that "universally prefers open source software to good UX". I have and use Signal with some friends, but there are also loads of people I communicate with who couldn't even tell you what open source software is, let alone articulate a preference for it over good UX. Are all of your friends software engineers and/or technophiles?
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    I don't have many friends, TBH. I've got 2 friends who use normal SMS, and a group of 6 friends (not including myself) who use Signal; of those, three of them are software developers and one of them uses R at work though software development isn't her primary job. The other two are probably more aware of open source software than they would otherwise be due to peer exposure. It's also worth noting that one of my developer friends got the rest of us into programming, though three of us had been running Linux before that -- it's not that I've disproportionately made friends with software developers, it's that a group of people I'd been hanging out with for years assimilated a software developer who converted the rest of us. There may have been some MDMA involved in that. Edit in case of potential ambiguity: s/a couple of/2
  - emerongi 7y ago
    Exactly. When all your friends are already using Facebook and you start telling them to use Signal instead... well, I can tell you from experience that it's almost impossible to break the status quo. What has happened to me is that usually there's 1-2 persons from each friend group who care enough that they will relay information to you through Signal. I still don't have a friend group that is 100% Signal. For that to happen, more than 50% of the group would need to care enough about privacy to completely abandon other communication channels and accept the cost of switching platforms. The rest would probably follow. In reality, I don't have a single non-tech friend who would give a fuck about encryption. You tell them about Signal and they go "cool", that's it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
0xdeadb00f 7y ago
The UX is fine IMO. They've been improving it. I have a couple non tech savvy friends that use it and they're fine with it.

kace91 7y ago

Because everyone uses it. Once a social app becomes mainstream it gets a giant advantage due to the amount of inertia needed to switch entire social circles to a new platform. Most new social platforms that make it big don't really take over older ones, they just grab a younger generation - usually just by being the network their parents aren't in.

tomcooks 7y ago

People use it because other people use it. Signal's lack of a web interface is another reason. Moreover, Telegram took the users that left WhatsApp for more secure alternatives (even though Telegrams homemade encryption doesn't look promising). Same reasons why a lot of people don't leave Facebook.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago

Not only are there network effects, but as you go through various cities in Latin America you will notice on the billboards that mobile service providers advertise "free" WhatsApp. As a result of the success of those ads, your contacts in that region will prefer WhatsApp to other media.

wp381640 7y ago

You don't understand why people use a communications app with 1.6 billion users as opposed to one with likely less than a million? It's network effects In my own anecdotal experience Signal ranks way below Viber (popular with migrants + expats), Wickr (popular with people doing illegal things and corporate executive scheming), Telegram (popular in crypto, scammers and terrorists) The only real broad use of Signal i've seen is amongst journalists - and even there i'm not certain how much they actually use it or if it's just the "i'm crypto aware" version of a blue checkmark for their Twitter profiles

rodgerd 7y ago

The Signal client is open source. The back end not so much. A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie".

frabbit 7y ago
And most of that is coming from MattGreen and Ptacek.
eitland 7y ago
> A lot of Signal is basically "trust Moxie". Let me come out and defend Signal (I usually defend Telegram, but I don't think we should be unfair to anyone): As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken. If I have understood it correctly an as long as that is true, NSA, FSB and the Chinese might be running the message handling together and there's still no reason to be worried that your messages will be intercepted in transit. Disclaimer: - as far as I am aware Signal is the safest messenger available for everyone - even if all the above is true you are still trusting them with your metadata. I think they are good people. If you are scared of them, be aware that they know who you talk to and when. This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware. - being good at crypto doesn't make them immune to bugs. There was a nasty vulnerability a few months ago that was remotely exploitable. Again, this is the same, or even worse for every other messenger.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  > This is however true for any mainstream technology as far as I am aware. It's too bad bitmessage can't scale :/
- f1refly 7y ago
  >As far as I am aware no one who knows what they are talking about has come out with anything that says Signals end-to-end encryption is broken. You have to check xmpp with omemo, it has libre servers and in federated