3 ms·

As a general rule, if millions of people are upset enough about something to take to the streets and risk being injured or killed by the police, it's a pretty s

As a general rule, if millions of people are upset enough about something to take to the streets and risk being injured or killed by the police, it's a pretty safe bet that something in their government is fucked and in need of fixing.

knzhou 7y ago
If you apply this consistently, you should also be sure that Brexiteers, the yellow vest protestors, and the Catalonian independent movement show that European government is fucked. (If you do, I respect that, but if you don't, consider why you think some mass anti-government protests are more sympathetic than others.)
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  Are you asserting Brexit isn't a massive failure of the British Government? They punted a critical and complex problem to the citizenry, and then advertised outright lies as benefits, and even many British people now recognize they were in no position to make a meaningful judgement of that issue and vote on it. I don't know what the yellow vest protest is. Catalonian independence is something I agree with. They've been exploited extremely hard by Spain more or less since they lost their autonomy.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >you should also be sure that Brexiteers, the yellow vest protestors, and the Catalonian independent movement show that European government is fucked. That's exactly what they show. Whether these groups favored solutions to the fuck-ness are the correct solutions totally tangential to that. When people take to the streets something ain't right.
  - FussyZeus 7y ago
    > Whether these groups favored solutions to the fuck-ness are the correct solutions totally tangential to that. When people take to the streets something ain't right. This, exactly. It takes a lot to get people to resort to civil unrest. I wish it was respected as being that, the last resort of a populace losing faith in it's leadership, and not derided as it is so often as just people who disagree with something. Protests should be a sign of not just disagreement but profound disgust not just for what is being done, but for the processes and the system that permitted it to happen in the first place.
- celticmusic 7y ago
  Are you implying that brexit protesters were in being injured and/or killed by the police?
umanwizard 7y ago
Zero people have been killed by the police in the current Hong Kong protests, as far as we know.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  Probably why I used the words risk and injured.
- cwkoss 7y ago
  Many protestors have been disappeared by imprisonment, and presumably shipped off to the mainland. Quite plausible a number of them have died, and this fact is being hidden because it would cause global outrage. China has historically been secretive about their extensive use of political and ethnic prisons and their use of prisoners for organ harvesting. Body of a 15 year old female protestor was found floating naked in the sea. Many speculate she was raped and killed by police. We do have evidence of torture: HK police (or mainland military acting as such) posing with an individual in a 'tiger chair' and mocking their suffering.
vbezhenar 7y ago
And how many millions of people are disturbed by those protests?
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dpn9oy/man_gets_pepper_sprayed_in_the_face_for_asking_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dpn9oy/man_gets_p... I for one don't weigh issues like this by the number of people who are on side X, I weigh individual people by the positions they take on such issues.
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  The one counter example by sibling commenter with the abuse protestors get is reprehensible. How do things like that not outweigh whatever minor inconveniences of disturbance are happening for the people you mention?

knzhou 7y ago

If you apply this consistently, you should also be sure that Brexiteers, the yellow vest protestors, and the Catalonian independent movement show that European government is fucked. (If you do, I respect that, but if you don't, consider why you think some mass anti-government protests are more sympathetic than others.)

FussyZeus 7y ago
Are you asserting Brexit isn't a massive failure of the British Government? They punted a critical and complex problem to the citizenry, and then advertised outright lies as benefits, and even many British people now recognize they were in no position to make a meaningful judgement of that issue and vote on it. I don't know what the yellow vest protest is. Catalonian independence is something I agree with. They've been exploited extremely hard by Spain more or less since they lost their autonomy.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>you should also be sure that Brexiteers, the yellow vest protestors, and the Catalonian independent movement show that European government is fucked. That's exactly what they show. Whether these groups favored solutions to the fuck-ness are the correct solutions totally tangential to that. When people take to the streets something ain't right.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  > Whether these groups favored solutions to the fuck-ness are the correct solutions totally tangential to that. When people take to the streets something ain't right. This, exactly. It takes a lot to get people to resort to civil unrest. I wish it was respected as being that, the last resort of a populace losing faith in it's leadership, and not derided as it is so often as just people who disagree with something. Protests should be a sign of not just disagreement but profound disgust not just for what is being done, but for the processes and the system that permitted it to happen in the first place.
celticmusic 7y ago
Are you implying that brexit protesters were in being injured and/or killed by the police?

umanwizard 7y ago

Zero people have been killed by the police in the current Hong Kong protests, as far as we know.

FussyZeus 7y ago
Probably why I used the words risk and injured.
cwkoss 7y ago
Many protestors have been disappeared by imprisonment, and presumably shipped off to the mainland. Quite plausible a number of them have died, and this fact is being hidden because it would cause global outrage. China has historically been secretive about their extensive use of political and ethnic prisons and their use of prisoners for organ harvesting. Body of a 15 year old female protestor was found floating naked in the sea. Many speculate she was raped and killed by police. We do have evidence of torture: HK police (or mainland military acting as such) posing with an individual in a 'tiger chair' and mocking their suffering.

vbezhenar 7y ago

And how many millions of people are disturbed by those protests?

PavlovsCat 7y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dpn9oy/man_gets_pepper_sprayed_in_the_face_for_asking_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dpn9oy/man_gets_p... I for one don't weigh issues like this by the number of people who are on side X, I weigh individual people by the positions they take on such issues.
skinnymuch 7y ago
The one counter example by sibling commenter with the abuse protestors get is reprehensible. How do things like that not outweigh whatever minor inconveniences of disturbance are happening for the people you mention?