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> Actually not a single game made pro player realize something new about the game. People are now over saturating their mineral line (making more probes than b

by Jyaif 7y ago

> Actually not a single game made pro player realize something new about the game. People are now over saturating their mineral line (making more probes than before), so I don't think that's true.

jcampbell1 7y ago
There were other cases of this such as 3 rather than 2 early air units. The AI seemed to anticipate losses in a way that is almost more rational than humans.
- chillacy 7y ago
  I remember it also built like 8 observers in one match, supposedly because the AI was so good at sniping them (and it trained on itself).
vkou 7y ago
Why? Is it because they expect to lose workers to harassment? Or is it so that they can saturate new expansions quicker?
- perseusmandate 7y ago
  In terms of total mineral output oversaturating would seem to be disadvantageous since being able to get more workers on the new mineral line is offset by the cost of not expanding sooner and then being able to build from both bases. I'm interested to understand why Alpha did this since worker production seems like one of the most solved and optimized parts of the games and not where you'd expect innovation
  - chillacy 7y ago
    Most people speculate it's to account for losses from harassment where it somehow finds easier to overprobe than bother with more defense.
Nimitz14 7y ago
This is wrong. See posts here from ptitdrogo: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/d4n3tw/alphastar_was_right/f0fhm2l/ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/d4n3tw/alphastar... > People oversaturated in wol and hots because you didn't expand a lot in these games and bases have a lot less minerals in LOTV, not because of some kind of lost knowledge like some comments seem to think here. [...] > Meanwhile alphastar was going 2 gate robo staying on one base making a fuck ton of probes to take a super late natural, it was bad, and anybody calling it the future really bothered me. Alphastar has not introduced anything new. Its play is strategically poor.
- jammygit 7y ago
  Can confirm. I did experiments and math about this years ago- overtraining workers is only good if you know you are about to get severely harassed and plan to lose a bunch

by Jyaif 7y ago

> Actually not a single game made pro player realize something new about the game. People are now over saturating their mineral line (making more probes than before), so I don't think that's true.

jcampbell1 7y ago

There were other cases of this such as 3 rather than 2 early air units. The AI seemed to anticipate losses in a way that is almost more rational than humans.

chillacy 7y ago
I remember it also built like 8 observers in one match, supposedly because the AI was so good at sniping them (and it trained on itself).

vkou 7y ago

Why? Is it because they expect to lose workers to harassment? Or is it so that they can saturate new expansions quicker?

perseusmandate 7y ago
In terms of total mineral output oversaturating would seem to be disadvantageous since being able to get more workers on the new mineral line is offset by the cost of not expanding sooner and then being able to build from both bases. I'm interested to understand why Alpha did this since worker production seems like one of the most solved and optimized parts of the games and not where you'd expect innovation
- chillacy 7y ago
  Most people speculate it's to account for losses from harassment where it somehow finds easier to overprobe than bother with more defense.

Nimitz14 7y ago

This is wrong. See posts here from ptitdrogo: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/d4n3tw/alphastar_was_right/f0fhm2l/ https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/d4n3tw/alphastar... > People oversaturated in wol and hots because you didn't expand a lot in these games and bases have a lot less minerals in LOTV, not because of some kind of lost knowledge like some comments seem to think here. [...] > Meanwhile alphastar was going 2 gate robo staying on one base making a fuck ton of probes to take a super late natural, it was bad, and anybody calling it the future really bothered me. Alphastar has not introduced anything new. Its play is strategically poor.

jammygit 7y ago
Can confirm. I did experiments and math about this years ago- overtraining workers is only good if you know you are about to get severely harassed and plan to lose a bunch