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I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experien

by mattrp 7y ago

I would second this experience. We travel with our five kids and its sometimes impossible to find a hotel that can accommodate us. That said, I did experience a switcheroo in Chicago similar to the article. However that’s where the similarities end. The place was in the same neighborhood, it was comparable to the listing but the only catch was we were told not say Airbnb to anyone in the building but to say guests of xyz. I felt like a criminal but otherwise the place was very nice and the host was super-responsive even though it was clear he was running multiple properties. Another time in Chicago, the bath tub hardware was broken off when we arrived. My side hustle is house flipping so I fixed it for the owner and they were thankful. I would say the part I find most disturbing about what I see on Airbnb is the rise of “420 friendly” and the presence of cameras in every room. One place we stayed at had obvious cameras on the outside but then just as I’m about to go to sleep I look up at the ceiling and there’s another one in the chandelier above the bed. That’s just beyond ok. As for 420, I just have an issue that if I’m going to take my kids someplace that I’d want reasonable assurances that it’s clean but with cities like LA where there’s a huge number of 420 listings, I’d rather just pay for adjoining rooms in a hotel than take the chance. As far as being an investor in Airbnb, I think a lot of ink has been dedicated to how Airbnb is going to upend the hospitality industry. It’s clear at the beginning the hotels had no response, but I do see hotels adjusting their brands and as someone who uses both hotels and Airbnb’s I’m increasingly more likely to just stay in a hotel. The exceptions are when we vacation in groups... we visited Toronto this summer with family and it was absolutely awesome to have a giant house on the beach for about half of what we would have spent on hotel rooms if there even had been a hotel in the beaches neighborhood. I see a place for both styles of accommodation but given that Airbnb is likely more of a class of property among many rather than an upending of the entire industry, I think valuation is going to be a real challenge.

dfxm12 7y ago
I would say the part I find most disturbing about what I see on Airbnb is ... the presence of cameras in every room. One place we stayed at had obvious cameras on the outside but then just as I’m about to go to sleep I look up at the ceiling and there’s another one in the chandelier above the bed. Yeah, it's policy that you have to disclose any cameras inside the room in the listing. It's not clear what happens when you do find one though. You spend all day traveling and are in a strange city. On the one hand, you're entitled to get out of there with no penalty, but on the other, it might be hard to find alternate accommodations.
- zaroth 7y ago
  If I was not traveling internationally, I would absolutely file a police report. Pretty sure it’s a felony to record guests even in your house unannounced, and probably compounded if the area being filmed is one where you could reasonably be naked.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  Cameras are problematic for AirBnB due to the tremendous scam potential. Consider these scenarios: 1) I'm a scammer. I stay in an AirBnB. Before I leave, I conceal a small camera somewhere in the room, and proceed to make a big deal out of "discovering" it. The room is refunded and the host is penalized or worse. 2) I'm a pervert. I spend the night in an AirBnB. Before I leave, I conceal a small camera somewhere in the room. I get off by watching the resulting footage, get paid by selling it, or both. 3) I'm a renter. I spend the night in an AirBnB. In the morning, I find the camera left by Pervert #2, possibly months earlier. I scream bloody murder. I get refunded, and the host is penalized or worse. Pervert #2 simply goes back to Ali Express and buys another camera. There are probably numerous other variations I'm not devious enough to think of, all of which leave the host holding the proverbial bag.
  - triangleman 7y ago
    Maybe hosts should think about such risks before they get into hosting.
    - CamperBob2 7y ago
      Yep. But ultimately what's at stake isn't just a few extra bucks for the host with a spare room or ADU in their back yard, it's the whole AirBnB business model.
  - thw0rted 7y ago
    I was on board with this, but doesn't more or less all of this apply to traditional hotels just as much as AirBnB? I don't make a habit of checking my hotel room for hidden perv-o-cams but how often are the housekeeping staff checking inside light fixtures, above wardrobes, etc? Guess I've got one more thing to worry about, so uh, thanks?
Phillips126 7y ago
I'm surprised you still seem to recommend AirBnb despite these experiences. As a family of 5 (3 kids) I know it can be frustrating and expensive to find hotel accommodations that work. But the strange (switcheroo, don't mention AirBnb to anyone!) to downright disturbing (cameras above the bed?!) experiences would never have me using AirBnb again. Maybe I just have issues trusting people... I'm sure there are great hosts but I don't like to gamble. Curious were the cameras in the bedroom pointing at the bed and attempting to be concealed? Huge fear of mine having some psychopath watching videos of my wife and I getting (un)dressed or intimate.
- mattrp 7y ago
  I don’t think I endorsed Airbnb as much as just tried to relate my experiences. In both cases I was traveling alone or sans kids and didn’t give either situation much thought. That said we’ve had many delightful experiences and have come to get to know real people who are sharing their homes. At the same time I don’t buy the story that Airbnb is going to upend the industry. Hotel chains have gotten pretty good about adding properties with suites / extra room at reasonable prices. So I tend to see Airbnb as filling a property category rather than a industry disruptor. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them start to book traditional hotel properties as more and more communities and hoa’s regulate the home sharing business. I can also see where they might branch into fractional ownership for customers that need to live in multiple cities and don’t want to have to lease/own a property they aren’t going to use full time. Right now both cases can be achieved with some workarounds but I can see maybe a class/designation within the system emerging over time. But as I read through the comments the real issue is trust and I would agree that there’s probably more work to be done there - I’ve seen recently a new category for homes that have been verified... so all in all I’m not ready to dismiss the platform but I would agree there are some issues.
dboreham 7y ago
I haven't stayed at Airbnbs in the US but it has been a common experience in Europe to be instructed to say we're guests of the owner if asked. I assume this is about either HOA rules on subletting, or tax/insurance/regulatory issues.
- stefs 7y ago
  that's tax evasion
- vinay427 7y ago
  I doubt that would hold up for insurance purposes. Also, I think it's relatively unlikely that tax inspectors come around and talk to suspected guests, at least compared to the common situation of HOA/lease policies restricting subletting.
- asveikau 7y ago
  I think it makes more sense. If you just say "I am at the airbnb", it's confusing. Maybe they don't know what unit you're talking about. If you say "guest of blah blah" there is some clarity. Eg. even if they don't know their neighbors, it's likely that the host's name is at least on the buzzer or mailbox. And if you remember your host's name, you may know which buzzer to hit at check-in, for example.
jandrese 7y ago
I've definitely had that "If anybody asks you are guests of Tiffany" from the bearded guy doing the checkin. Apparently the building management was hostile to AirBNB, but the funny thing is that we saw the occupants of two other apartments on the same floor that were clearly people on vacation just like us. I had a strong suspicion that most of the building was bought up by foreign investors and turned into AirBNB rentals. But the location was in walking distance of the major attractions in downtown and cost a half of what the local hotels were charging for "three" bedrooms (really two bedrooms and a closet with a bed crammed into it) vs. a single room with a pair of doubles at a hotel. It even had free parking, unlike the hotels that were charging $40-$50 per spot per day. I mean yeah, it feels sketchy as hell, but the place is nicer and literally hundreds of dollars cheaper than a hotel.
- chachachoney 7y ago
  >> I mean yeah, it feels sketchy as hell Usually does when you are participating in fraud.
  - mapgrep 7y ago
    He said he was told at checkin, your options are pretty limited at that point. Especially when you have only soft/anecdotal evidence it is actually in some vague way not legit. “If anyone asks, you’re guests of Tiffany” is not a definitively incriminating statement, and the fact that building management is hostile to Airbnb doesn’t mean any lease or city code is being violated. Ideally there would be an anonymous review system to let people disclose this sort of fuzzy evidence though because who wants to be party to a sketchy situation? Not only are there legit Airbnb’s, there are long-standing legit vacation rental markets (think summer cabins) where Airbnb is taking over from the old alternative sites. So it’s not like every Airbnb listing is circumventing the law.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  > I had a strong suspicion that most of the building was bought up by foreign investors and turned into AirBNB rentals. I push back against this in my own building. I obviously refuse to let random people into the building, and I've left through the back exit to avoid obvious AirBnB "friends"¹. (Although having read the article, I now see people are much more reluctant to leave a bad review than I thought.) Short-term sublets are against the contract in my building. Apartments in nice European city centres are for people to live in, not visitors on a weekend break. I've just reported the current listings to the owner of the building. Last year their leases were terminated pretty quickly :-) ¹ Or whatever bullshit term AirBnB's marketing uses.
noodle 7y ago
Sounds like they did the switch to avoid getting caught running an illegal or otherwise somehow contract-breaching Airbnb. If they used their correct address, their building would figure it out and shut them down.
puranjay 7y ago
If I had to fix a bathroom fixture on my own on a vacation, it would definitely piss me off enough to never use the service again. I'm surprised that you're so nonchalant about it
- mattrp 7y ago
  Well I just stayed in a hotel in Vegas and the air conditioner didn’t work. It was 2 am when I arrived due to late plane. The last thing I wanted to do was wait around for a repair guy or pack it all up and change rooms. At least with the faucet it was a pretty easy fix I could do in about two minutes and it helped the homeowner out. After reading through most of the thread below I would agree I’m generally more nonchalant that many others. I guess I never appreciated the range of awful experiences people have had and how they feel about it. Travel can be rough... I just had a flat tire in the Mojave desert and had to pay $55 to fix it at midnight. The rental car company initially wanted to accuse me of doing donuts or riding off road but once I got someone sane on the phone they gave the straight up policy on these situations. Upon return I showed the repair receipt and they deducted $100 off for the inconvenience. That was cool. I guess you just have to take each experience differently and assess the situation you’re in.

by mattrp 7y ago

dfxm12 7y ago

I would say the part I find most disturbing about what I see on Airbnb is ... the presence of cameras in every room. One place we stayed at had obvious cameras on the outside but then just as I’m about to go to sleep I look up at the ceiling and there’s another one in the chandelier above the bed. Yeah, it's policy that you have to disclose any cameras inside the room in the listing. It's not clear what happens when you do find one though. You spend all day traveling and are in a strange city. On the one hand, you're entitled to get out of there with no penalty, but on the other, it might be hard to find alternate accommodations.

zaroth 7y ago
If I was not traveling internationally, I would absolutely file a police report. Pretty sure it’s a felony to record guests even in your house unannounced, and probably compounded if the area being filmed is one where you could reasonably be naked.
CamperBob2 7y ago
Cameras are problematic for AirBnB due to the tremendous scam potential. Consider these scenarios: 1) I'm a scammer. I stay in an AirBnB. Before I leave, I conceal a small camera somewhere in the room, and proceed to make a big deal out of "discovering" it. The room is refunded and the host is penalized or worse. 2) I'm a pervert. I spend the night in an AirBnB. Before I leave, I conceal a small camera somewhere in the room. I get off by watching the resulting footage, get paid by selling it, or both. 3) I'm a renter. I spend the night in an AirBnB. In the morning, I find the camera left by Pervert #2, possibly months earlier. I scream bloody murder. I get refunded, and the host is penalized or worse. Pervert #2 simply goes back to Ali Express and buys another camera. There are probably numerous other variations I'm not devious enough to think of, all of which leave the host holding the proverbial bag.
- triangleman 7y ago
  Maybe hosts should think about such risks before they get into hosting.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    Yep. But ultimately what's at stake isn't just a few extra bucks for the host with a spare room or ADU in their back yard, it's the whole AirBnB business model.
- thw0rted 7y ago
  I was on board with this, but doesn't more or less all of this apply to traditional hotels just as much as AirBnB? I don't make a habit of checking my hotel room for hidden perv-o-cams but how often are the housekeeping staff checking inside light fixtures, above wardrobes, etc? Guess I've got one more thing to worry about, so uh, thanks?

Phillips126 7y ago

I'm surprised you still seem to recommend AirBnb despite these experiences. As a family of 5 (3 kids) I know it can be frustrating and expensive to find hotel accommodations that work. But the strange (switcheroo, don't mention AirBnb to anyone!) to downright disturbing (cameras above the bed?!) experiences would never have me using AirBnb again. Maybe I just have issues trusting people... I'm sure there are great hosts but I don't like to gamble. Curious were the cameras in the bedroom pointing at the bed and attempting to be concealed? Huge fear of mine having some psychopath watching videos of my wife and I getting (un)dressed or intimate.

mattrp 7y ago
I don’t think I endorsed Airbnb as much as just tried to relate my experiences. In both cases I was traveling alone or sans kids and didn’t give either situation much thought. That said we’ve had many delightful experiences and have come to get to know real people who are sharing their homes. At the same time I don’t buy the story that Airbnb is going to upend the industry. Hotel chains have gotten pretty good about adding properties with suites / extra room at reasonable prices. So I tend to see Airbnb as filling a property category rather than a industry disruptor. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them start to book traditional hotel properties as more and more communities and hoa’s regulate the home sharing business. I can also see where they might branch into fractional ownership for customers that need to live in multiple cities and don’t want to have to lease/own a property they aren’t going to use full time. Right now both cases can be achieved with some workarounds but I can see maybe a class/designation within the system emerging over time. But as I read through the comments the real issue is trust and I would agree that there’s probably more work to be done there - I’ve seen recently a new category for homes that have been verified... so all in all I’m not ready to dismiss the platform but I would agree there are some issues.

dboreham 7y ago

I haven't stayed at Airbnbs in the US but it has been a common experience in Europe to be instructed to say we're guests of the owner if asked. I assume this is about either HOA rules on subletting, or tax/insurance/regulatory issues.

stefs 7y ago
that's tax evasion
vinay427 7y ago
I doubt that would hold up for insurance purposes. Also, I think it's relatively unlikely that tax inspectors come around and talk to suspected guests, at least compared to the common situation of HOA/lease policies restricting subletting.
asveikau 7y ago
I think it makes more sense. If you just say "I am at the airbnb", it's confusing. Maybe they don't know what unit you're talking about. If you say "guest of blah blah" there is some clarity. Eg. even if they don't know their neighbors, it's likely that the host's name is at least on the buzzer or mailbox. And if you remember your host's name, you may know which buzzer to hit at check-in, for example.

jandrese 7y ago

I've definitely had that "If anybody asks you are guests of Tiffany" from the bearded guy doing the checkin. Apparently the building management was hostile to AirBNB, but the funny thing is that we saw the occupants of two other apartments on the same floor that were clearly people on vacation just like us. I had a strong suspicion that most of the building was bought up by foreign investors and turned into AirBNB rentals. But the location was in walking distance of the major attractions in downtown and cost a half of what the local hotels were charging for "three" bedrooms (really two bedrooms and a closet with a bed crammed into it) vs. a single room with a pair of doubles at a hotel. It even had free parking, unlike the hotels that were charging $40-$50 per spot per day. I mean yeah, it feels sketchy as hell, but the place is nicer and literally hundreds of dollars cheaper than a hotel.

chachachoney 7y ago
>> I mean yeah, it feels sketchy as hell Usually does when you are participating in fraud.
- mapgrep 7y ago
  He said he was told at checkin, your options are pretty limited at that point. Especially when you have only soft/anecdotal evidence it is actually in some vague way not legit. “If anyone asks, you’re guests of Tiffany” is not a definitively incriminating statement, and the fact that building management is hostile to Airbnb doesn’t mean any lease or city code is being violated. Ideally there would be an anonymous review system to let people disclose this sort of fuzzy evidence though because who wants to be party to a sketchy situation? Not only are there legit Airbnb’s, there are long-standing legit vacation rental markets (think summer cabins) where Airbnb is taking over from the old alternative sites. So it’s not like every Airbnb listing is circumventing the law.
Symbiote 7y ago
> I had a strong suspicion that most of the building was bought up by foreign investors and turned into AirBNB rentals. I push back against this in my own building. I obviously refuse to let random people into the building, and I've left through the back exit to avoid obvious AirBnB "friends"¹. (Although having read the article, I now see people are much more reluctant to leave a bad review than I thought.) Short-term sublets are against the contract in my building. Apartments in nice European city centres are for people to live in, not visitors on a weekend break. I've just reported the current listings to the owner of the building. Last year their leases were terminated pretty quickly :-) ¹ Or whatever bullshit term AirBnB's marketing uses.

noodle 7y ago

Sounds like they did the switch to avoid getting caught running an illegal or otherwise somehow contract-breaching Airbnb. If they used their correct address, their building would figure it out and shut them down.

puranjay 7y ago

If I had to fix a bathroom fixture on my own on a vacation, it would definitely piss me off enough to never use the service again. I'm surprised that you're so nonchalant about it

mattrp 7y ago
Well I just stayed in a hotel in Vegas and the air conditioner didn’t work. It was 2 am when I arrived due to late plane. The last thing I wanted to do was wait around for a repair guy or pack it all up and change rooms. At least with the faucet it was a pretty easy fix I could do in about two minutes and it helped the homeowner out. After reading through most of the thread below I would agree I’m generally more nonchalant that many others. I guess I never appreciated the range of awful experiences people have had and how they feel about it. Travel can be rough... I just had a flat tire in the Mojave desert and had to pay $55 to fix it at midnight. The rental car company initially wanted to accuse me of doing donuts or riding off road but once I got someone sane on the phone they gave the straight up policy on these situations. Upon return I showed the repair receipt and they deducted $100 off for the inconvenience. That was cool. I guess you just have to take each experience differently and assess the situation you’re in.