5 ms·

Sorry, but Germany isn't a country that seems to be affected by global warming much.

yifanl 7y ago
The whole notion of country shouldn't exist in the conversation of "global warming". Unless Germany plans on building rockets and leaving the planet entirely, they'll be as affected as everyone else on the long-term scale.
- PeterisP 7y ago
  The notion of country matters very much in the conversation of global warming - while every country will be somehow affected, the effect will be very different for different countries. A rise of sea level will eliminate or devastate some contries while barely affecting others; the change in rainfall and temperature patterns will devastate agriculture in some countries while improving it in others; etc. And a lot of how and why climate change mitigation is (not) working is explainable by the difference between the countries who'd bear the worst consequences of climate change and the countries who'd bear the worst costs to reduce these consequences.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    Apart from droughts and the heat etc. what happens when people try to escape all those consequences in their countries by becoming refugees? Germany would need to do something about it, whether let them in, keep them out by huge military force etc. https://www.climateforesight.eu/migrations/environmental-migrants-up-to-1-billion-by-2050/ https://www.climateforesight.eu/migrations/environmental-mig...
    - PeterisP 7y ago
      Of course, that would affect Germany as well, but it's obvious that the effect of that migration on Germans would be fundamentally different from the effect of that same migration on e.g. Bangladeshis, the choices they need to make (or can make) to mitigate that impact are substantially different.
- mistermann 7y ago
  > The whole notion of country shouldn't exist in the conversation of "global warming" It depends if you're talking about how things should be, or how they are. Or, whether the point of the conversation is strictly to communicate scientific details, or to persuade the entire non-homogeneous population of an entire planet to alter their behavior. If I was running the show, I would craft a completely different conversation for the latter situation, since it is infinitely more complex, but this doesn't seem to be a terribly popular opinion. Rather, the chosen approach seems to be to just blast a few variations of a tiny (and sometimes incorrect) subset of the content from the former conversation repeatedly through various media channels, insult those (typically based on simplistic strawman caricatures) who aren't eagerly jumping on board, and complain about how "stupid" people are. We'll see how this approach turns out, but so far it doesn't seem to be very effective in my estimation. If this situation was reasonably accurately recreated in a video game, I suspect the problem would have been identified and solved long ago, but here in the real world where we have very real consequences, we're unable to approach problems with the same intellectual rigor we would in a video game. Humans are a complex species.
clows 7y ago
Money makes the world go around so: The 2018 drought cost farmers in germany approximately 2 billion euros -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/germany-faces-worst-harvest-in-24-years-after-extreme-drought https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/germany-f... ground water levels are at an all time low due to very little rain: 2018 was especially problematic. https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/how-climate-change-affecting-germany https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/how-climate-chang... forrests are dying at an alarming rate https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/07/part-of-german-soul-under-threat-as-forests-die https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/07/part-of-... I wouldn't say germany is a climate change hotspot but the effects are already here. Politics just hasn't caught up with reality yet.

The whole notion of country shouldn't exist in the conversation of "global warming". Unless Germany plans on building rockets and leaving the planet entirely, they'll be as affected as everyone else on the long-term scale.

PeterisP 7y ago
The notion of country matters very much in the conversation of global warming - while every country will be somehow affected, the effect will be very different for different countries. A rise of sea level will eliminate or devastate some contries while barely affecting others; the change in rainfall and temperature patterns will devastate agriculture in some countries while improving it in others; etc. And a lot of how and why climate change mitigation is (not) working is explainable by the difference between the countries who'd bear the worst consequences of climate change and the countries who'd bear the worst costs to reduce these consequences.
- belltaco 7y ago
  Apart from droughts and the heat etc. what happens when people try to escape all those consequences in their countries by becoming refugees? Germany would need to do something about it, whether let them in, keep them out by huge military force etc. https://www.climateforesight.eu/migrations/environmental-migrants-up-to-1-billion-by-2050/ https://www.climateforesight.eu/migrations/environmental-mig...
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    Of course, that would affect Germany as well, but it's obvious that the effect of that migration on Germans would be fundamentally different from the effect of that same migration on e.g. Bangladeshis, the choices they need to make (or can make) to mitigate that impact are substantially different.
mistermann 7y ago
> The whole notion of country shouldn't exist in the conversation of "global warming" It depends if you're talking about how things should be, or how they are. Or, whether the point of the conversation is strictly to communicate scientific details, or to persuade the entire non-homogeneous population of an entire planet to alter their behavior. If I was running the show, I would craft a completely different conversation for the latter situation, since it is infinitely more complex, but this doesn't seem to be a terribly popular opinion. Rather, the chosen approach seems to be to just blast a few variations of a tiny (and sometimes incorrect) subset of the content from the former conversation repeatedly through various media channels, insult those (typically based on simplistic strawman caricatures) who aren't eagerly jumping on board, and complain about how "stupid" people are. We'll see how this approach turns out, but so far it doesn't seem to be very effective in my estimation. If this situation was reasonably accurately recreated in a video game, I suspect the problem would have been identified and solved long ago, but here in the real world where we have very real consequences, we're unable to approach problems with the same intellectual rigor we would in a video game. Humans are a complex species.

clows 7y ago

Money makes the world go around so: The 2018 drought cost farmers in germany approximately 2 billion euros -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/germany-faces-worst-harvest-in-24-years-after-extreme-drought https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/germany-f... ground water levels are at an all time low due to very little rain: 2018 was especially problematic. https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/how-climate-change-affecting-germany https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/how-climate-chang... forrests are dying at an alarming rate https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/07/part-of-german-soul-under-threat-as-forests-die https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/07/part-of-... I wouldn't say germany is a climate change hotspot but the effects are already here. Politics just hasn't caught up with reality yet.