4 ms·

The title seems to contradict the subtitle: > Google AI beats top human players at strategy game StarCraft II vs > DeepMind’s AlphaStar beat all but the very

The title seems to contradict the subtitle: > Google AI beats top human players at strategy game StarCraft II vs > DeepMind’s AlphaStar beat all but the very best humans at the fast-paced sci-fi video game.

diggan 7y ago
Yeah, subtitle seems much better. My impression before reading was that it did beat the top players but reading the articles makes it clear it beats everyone BUT the top players... Also, this part seems a bit weird from the article: > The AI wasn’t able to beat the best player in the world, as AIs have in chess and Go, but DeepMind considers its benchmark met, and says it has completed the StarCraft II challenge. So they didn't manage to beat the best players but consider the challenge complete anyways? I thought the goal was to build something that could things better than humans.
- xorfish 7y ago
  The difference between top 200 players and the very best players is quite significant in Starcraft II. Some argue that the difference in skill between the best players and a top 200 player is the same as between a top 200 player and a median player.
- Nimitz14 7y ago
  They're framing it positively to distract from the fact they can't do it, the reality is they've spent millions of $ on compute and yet their agent is still terrible at strategy (and tactics sometimes too), they probably decided it's best to stop now before sinking even more money into it.
  - TaupeRanger 7y ago
    You're getting downvoted for tone probably, but I think you're right overall. They simply can't "win" this game in the same way they "won" Go.
- UnFleshedOne 7y ago
  I suspect if they remove artificial limitations (like APM limit and no screen jumping), it will be unbeatable.
xorfish 7y ago
Professional players that play in tournaments know each other and how they play. This might be a further weakness even if Alphastar can beat the best players. Other players may adapt to the play of Alphastar when they know that they play against it.
dang 7y ago
This comment was originally posted on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21408024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21408024, but we've merged it into the earlier submission.

diggan 7y ago

Yeah, subtitle seems much better. My impression before reading was that it did beat the top players but reading the articles makes it clear it beats everyone BUT the top players... Also, this part seems a bit weird from the article: > The AI wasn’t able to beat the best player in the world, as AIs have in chess and Go, but DeepMind considers its benchmark met, and says it has completed the StarCraft II challenge. So they didn't manage to beat the best players but consider the challenge complete anyways? I thought the goal was to build something that could things better than humans.

xorfish 7y ago
The difference between top 200 players and the very best players is quite significant in Starcraft II. Some argue that the difference in skill between the best players and a top 200 player is the same as between a top 200 player and a median player.
Nimitz14 7y ago
They're framing it positively to distract from the fact they can't do it, the reality is they've spent millions of $ on compute and yet their agent is still terrible at strategy (and tactics sometimes too), they probably decided it's best to stop now before sinking even more money into it.
- TaupeRanger 7y ago
  You're getting downvoted for tone probably, but I think you're right overall. They simply can't "win" this game in the same way they "won" Go.
UnFleshedOne 7y ago
I suspect if they remove artificial limitations (like APM limit and no screen jumping), it will be unbeatable.

xorfish 7y ago

Professional players that play in tournaments know each other and how they play. This might be a further weakness even if Alphastar can beat the best players. Other players may adapt to the play of Alphastar when they know that they play against it.

dang 7y ago

This comment was originally posted on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21408024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21408024, but we've merged it into the earlier submission.