5 ms·

I think you read me wrong. I'm not denying that cultural reasons might be valid to support secession. I'm saying that having a different culture or language doe

I think you read me wrong. I'm not denying that cultural reasons might be valid to support secession. I'm saying that having a different culture or language does not imply that you want or need to secede. Indeed, in my opinion, it is the opposite and leads to a richer and more diverse country.

justin66 7y ago
Ah, I did misunderstand you then, or something.
enriquto 7y ago
> having a different culture or language does not imply that you want or need to secede. Indeed. But in spain this is just impossible. As a staunch pro-independence supporter, I'm not for that option as a matter of principle, but of practicality. If the spanish state saw catalan language as a legitimate part of its own culture, I would feel comfortable being spanish. Yet, it seems to me absolutely impossible and utopical to change spanish culture towards that. I have heard too many times spanish people arrogantly say "I speak spanish because I am in Spain, you are being impolite by using catalan". Of course, idiot! we in spain speak catalan. If anything, catalan is a uniquely spanish language because it is not much spoken elsewere, unlike spanish, which has a strong presence in the world. But to no avail. I have given up in despair. The spanish psyche is inherently incapable to accept this idea. The only feasible way that I see to avoid the complete disappearance of the catalan language is by having our own state, and thus I fight for independence.
- justin66 7y ago
  > The only feasible way that I see to avoid the complete disappearance of the catalan language is by having our own state, and thus I fight for independence. In your view, if the central government let Catalonia have independence in terms of language, including what children are taught in public schools and what appears in public forums and so on, would the independence movement come to an end?
  - enriquto 7y ago
    I don't know, I just stated my personal reason for wanting independence, but I think it's not very representative. Regarding your question, it seems to me that it's too late now. First, the spanish public opinion would not accept any kind of "concession" to Catalonia. Second, any such concession would likely be dismissed as insufficient by independence supporters. The only realistic way out that I see is an escalation of the conflict until it becomes unsustainable economically for spain.
- yiyus 7y ago
  The Catalan language really was in risk during the dictatorship, but during democracy its status has constantly improved. Nowadays, Catalan is spoken by the majority of Catalonian people, taught in schools, used (even required) in public institutions... How is independence your only way to avoid that it disappears??? You are just telling lies. I like the different languages. I have lived in Spain and other countries where they have different languages, and I like that people make everything possible to conserve their languages and local dialects. And I think all this with my Spanish psyche, no less. But if I am talking with someone that can speak a language I speak, and this person insists using one I don't understand, I indeed find it impolite.
  - oska 7y ago
    > But if I am talking with someone that can speak a language I speak, and this person insists using one I don't understand, I indeed find it impolite. Sorry but this is a position of arrogance and entitlement. No-one is obliged to talk to you and if they don't want to do so in a language which has been forced upon their culture at the cost of the indigenous language then they are completely in the right to do so.
    - yiyus 7y ago
      Sorry but I think that not doing what you can to facilitate communication with your interlocutor is impolite. Including not responding. Of course there is no obligation, but I'd find it impolite. I travel a lot, I have lived in different countries. If everybody tried to impose their local languages to foreign people, this would be impossible. Languages are tools for communication, using them as signs of identity is the arrogant part. By the way, calling Catalan an indigenous language is ridiculous.

justin66 7y ago

Ah, I did misunderstand you then, or something.

enriquto 7y ago

> having a different culture or language does not imply that you want or need to secede. Indeed. But in spain this is just impossible. As a staunch pro-independence supporter, I'm not for that option as a matter of principle, but of practicality. If the spanish state saw catalan language as a legitimate part of its own culture, I would feel comfortable being spanish. Yet, it seems to me absolutely impossible and utopical to change spanish culture towards that. I have heard too many times spanish people arrogantly say "I speak spanish because I am in Spain, you are being impolite by using catalan". Of course, idiot! we in spain speak catalan. If anything, catalan is a uniquely spanish language because it is not much spoken elsewere, unlike spanish, which has a strong presence in the world. But to no avail. I have given up in despair. The spanish psyche is inherently incapable to accept this idea. The only feasible way that I see to avoid the complete disappearance of the catalan language is by having our own state, and thus I fight for independence.

justin66 7y ago
> The only feasible way that I see to avoid the complete disappearance of the catalan language is by having our own state, and thus I fight for independence. In your view, if the central government let Catalonia have independence in terms of language, including what children are taught in public schools and what appears in public forums and so on, would the independence movement come to an end?
- enriquto 7y ago
  I don't know, I just stated my personal reason for wanting independence, but I think it's not very representative. Regarding your question, it seems to me that it's too late now. First, the spanish public opinion would not accept any kind of "concession" to Catalonia. Second, any such concession would likely be dismissed as insufficient by independence supporters. The only realistic way out that I see is an escalation of the conflict until it becomes unsustainable economically for spain.
yiyus 7y ago
The Catalan language really was in risk during the dictatorship, but during democracy its status has constantly improved. Nowadays, Catalan is spoken by the majority of Catalonian people, taught in schools, used (even required) in public institutions... How is independence your only way to avoid that it disappears??? You are just telling lies. I like the different languages. I have lived in Spain and other countries where they have different languages, and I like that people make everything possible to conserve their languages and local dialects. And I think all this with my Spanish psyche, no less. But if I am talking with someone that can speak a language I speak, and this person insists using one I don't understand, I indeed find it impolite.
- oska 7y ago
  > But if I am talking with someone that can speak a language I speak, and this person insists using one I don't understand, I indeed find it impolite. Sorry but this is a position of arrogance and entitlement. No-one is obliged to talk to you and if they don't want to do so in a language which has been forced upon their culture at the cost of the indigenous language then they are completely in the right to do so.
  - yiyus 7y ago
    Sorry but I think that not doing what you can to facilitate communication with your interlocutor is impolite. Including not responding. Of course there is no obligation, but I'd find it impolite. I travel a lot, I have lived in different countries. If everybody tried to impose their local languages to foreign people, this would be impossible. Languages are tools for communication, using them as signs of identity is the arrogant part. By the way, calling Catalan an indigenous language is ridiculous.