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The dominant group has not only outsourced the 'dealing' but also outsourced the externalities to minority groups. I'm coming from the UK perspective, so our p

The dominant group has not only outsourced the 'dealing' but also outsourced the externalities to minority groups. I'm coming from the UK perspective, so our police are less trigger-happy and mostly unarmed but certainly have a very dark side. Historically was more likely that the black / Irish / gay / minority-du-jour person ended up lying at the bottom of the stairs in the police station than a straight white person. (Edit: originally phrased in present tense) Maybe the dominant group would be less happy to outsource it if they or their parents had also been on the receiving end.

concordDance 7y ago
> It's more likely that the black / Irish / gay / minority-du-jour person ends up lying at the bottom of the stairs in the police station than a straight white person. Do you have a source on this? The idea that an arrested person is more likely to be injured in police custody if they are one of the listed minorities in the 21st century in the UK is very surprising to me.
- pjc50 7y ago
  There definitely are still problems with the relationship of the police to black communities, especially in London, but the available stats don't make a clear case for it and the overall number is quite small: https://fullfact.org/law/bame-deaths-police-uk/ https://fullfact.org/law/bame-deaths-police-uk/ That discusses deaths in custody. I would like to highlight a specific issue of shootings: > BAME people have made up about one third of those shot by the police since 2004, according to a third set of figures from the Independent Police Complaints Commission. These suggest 8 people from black and minority ethnic communities died in police shootings from 2004/05 to 2015/16, out of a total of 27. > About 14% of people in England and Wales identify as black or minority ethnic, as suggested by Kiri Kwankhende. (Americans are invited to consider that figure of 27 deaths from police shootings over a decade...)
- afandian 7y ago
  I'm thinking of the past (which is well known) when we constructed the norms on policing. Those examples are certainly drawn from the past 50 years. I could have expressed that better. However, although I wasn't necessarily talking about the present day, we do have to look at the historical context. IMHO police forces such as the Met need to do a huge amount more to convince us that they've stopped. And my point was really that whether someone was beaten up by the police or their parents were, they are much more likely to consider the downsides of getting on the wrong side of the police than someone who has never met anyone who was targeted.

concordDance 7y ago

> It's more likely that the black / Irish / gay / minority-du-jour person ends up lying at the bottom of the stairs in the police station than a straight white person. Do you have a source on this? The idea that an arrested person is more likely to be injured in police custody if they are one of the listed minorities in the 21st century in the UK is very surprising to me.

pjc50 7y ago
There definitely are still problems with the relationship of the police to black communities, especially in London, but the available stats don't make a clear case for it and the overall number is quite small: https://fullfact.org/law/bame-deaths-police-uk/ https://fullfact.org/law/bame-deaths-police-uk/ That discusses deaths in custody. I would like to highlight a specific issue of shootings: > BAME people have made up about one third of those shot by the police since 2004, according to a third set of figures from the Independent Police Complaints Commission. These suggest 8 people from black and minority ethnic communities died in police shootings from 2004/05 to 2015/16, out of a total of 27. > About 14% of people in England and Wales identify as black or minority ethnic, as suggested by Kiri Kwankhende. (Americans are invited to consider that figure of 27 deaths from police shootings over a decade...)
afandian 7y ago
I'm thinking of the past (which is well known) when we constructed the norms on policing. Those examples are certainly drawn from the past 50 years. I could have expressed that better. However, although I wasn't necessarily talking about the present day, we do have to look at the historical context. IMHO police forces such as the Met need to do a huge amount more to convince us that they've stopped. And my point was really that whether someone was beaten up by the police or their parents were, they are much more likely to consider the downsides of getting on the wrong side of the police than someone who has never met anyone who was targeted.