4 ms·

It bothers me that astro-nomy (the laws of the stars) is the regular science and astro-logy (the study of the stars) is the pseudoscience. This is clearly backw

It bothers me that astro-nomy (the laws of the stars) is the regular science and astro-logy (the study of the stars) is the pseudoscience. This is clearly backwards!

DoreenMichele 7y ago
The short version is that astrology came first and probably basically began as an attempt to predict the weather for purposes of things like deciding when to plant. Planting before an unseasonably late frost could be a deadly local apocalypse for a village. Somewhere along the way we began to distinguish scientific study of the stars from attempts at weather prediction and also from attempts at assuring ourselves that the sun will come out tomorrow because the omens are propitious.[3] So we began calling one part of our desire to look up to the heavens and wonder how it impacts our lives Meteorology ("the study of things high in the air" [1]) and another Astronomy and began turning our nose up the stuff we now call astrology even though all three of those used to be basically the same thing. You can see evidence of this in Farmer's Almanacs which still list things like phases of the moon.[2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology [2] https://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/calendar https://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/calendar [3] We remain intensely interested in trying to predict the future and in using that info to try to "bet the right way," we just have more respectable terms for it than signs, portents and omens. These days, we like to use terms like leading indicators, statistical analysis and professional opinion. If you think about it, it's really the exact same thing, we just have access to better data and tools. When an astrologer was someone kings used as advisors, they were basically relying on proxies. Now, we have satellite imagery of storms on the other side of the planet and we try to predict their path. A hundred years ago, hurricanes just showed up without warning and this lack of warning directly resulted in lost lives. But we scoff at astrology like "only a fool would take that seriously," completely forgetting that we have always been able to look up and infer relationships between things happening in the heavens and events here on the ground, but we didn't always have satellites and the like.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  We make fun of astrologers for being silly now not because the heavens aren't connected to the earth, but because astrologers never bothered checking to see whether or not the specific connections they believed in were true.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I think part of the problem boils down to "90% of everything is crap." What most people know of astrology is "popular" or Sun Sign astrology which posits that all 7 billion people on the planet can be broken up into twelve sub categories depending on the (astrological) month they were born in and we can then predict that roughly one twelfth of the human race "will fall in love today!" or whatever (even though some of those people are infants). Predictive astrology caters to the omnipresent human need to reassure ourselves that things will be okay. It's the stuff that shows up in newspapers and magazines and it has little to do with what serious astrologers do. But it helps pay the bills for some people. So it's probably here to stay, though most of it is amazingly eye-roll worthy. (Said as someone who actually believes in astrology, yet hates "popular" astrology with something of a burning passion.)
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      What's the difference between not believing in astrology (or any other theory) and not believing that it can predict anything?
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        A very large part of astrology is about understanding yourself and your relationships to other people. Natal or birth charts are about wondering "Who the hell am I?" and relationship astrology -- also called Synastry -- is about understanding how you interact with people around you. It's not terribly different from things like Meyers-Briggs Personality Types, which also have both avid followers and derisive critics. I will note that both Natal charts and Synastry map out the positions of the sun, moon, planets and other points of interest and additionally examine their mathematical relationships. They don't rely on "birth month"/sun sign as anything remotely resembling sufficient information.

It bothers me that astro-nomy (the laws of the stars) is the regular science and astro-logy (the study of the stars) is the pseudoscience. This is clearly backwards!

DoreenMichele 7y ago

The short version is that astrology came first and probably basically began as an attempt to predict the weather for purposes of things like deciding when to plant. Planting before an unseasonably late frost could be a deadly local apocalypse for a village. Somewhere along the way we began to distinguish scientific study of the stars from attempts at weather prediction and also from attempts at assuring ourselves that the sun will come out tomorrow because the omens are propitious.[3] So we began calling one part of our desire to look up to the heavens and wonder how it impacts our lives Meteorology ("the study of things high in the air" [1]) and another Astronomy and began turning our nose up the stuff we now call astrology even though all three of those used to be basically the same thing. You can see evidence of this in Farmer's Almanacs which still list things like phases of the moon.[2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology [2] https://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/calendar https://www.almanac.com/astronomy/moon/calendar [3] We remain intensely interested in trying to predict the future and in using that info to try to "bet the right way," we just have more respectable terms for it than signs, portents and omens. These days, we like to use terms like leading indicators, statistical analysis and professional opinion. If you think about it, it's really the exact same thing, we just have access to better data and tools. When an astrologer was someone kings used as advisors, they were basically relying on proxies. Now, we have satellite imagery of storms on the other side of the planet and we try to predict their path. A hundred years ago, hurricanes just showed up without warning and this lack of warning directly resulted in lost lives. But we scoff at astrology like "only a fool would take that seriously," completely forgetting that we have always been able to look up and infer relationships between things happening in the heavens and events here on the ground, but we didn't always have satellites and the like.

whatshisface 7y ago
We make fun of astrologers for being silly now not because the heavens aren't connected to the earth, but because astrologers never bothered checking to see whether or not the specific connections they believed in were true.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I think part of the problem boils down to "90% of everything is crap." What most people know of astrology is "popular" or Sun Sign astrology which posits that all 7 billion people on the planet can be broken up into twelve sub categories depending on the (astrological) month they were born in and we can then predict that roughly one twelfth of the human race "will fall in love today!" or whatever (even though some of those people are infants). Predictive astrology caters to the omnipresent human need to reassure ourselves that things will be okay. It's the stuff that shows up in newspapers and magazines and it has little to do with what serious astrologers do. But it helps pay the bills for some people. So it's probably here to stay, though most of it is amazingly eye-roll worthy. (Said as someone who actually believes in astrology, yet hates "popular" astrology with something of a burning passion.)
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    What's the difference between not believing in astrology (or any other theory) and not believing that it can predict anything?
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      A very large part of astrology is about understanding yourself and your relationships to other people. Natal or birth charts are about wondering "Who the hell am I?" and relationship astrology -- also called Synastry -- is about understanding how you interact with people around you. It's not terribly different from things like Meyers-Briggs Personality Types, which also have both avid followers and derisive critics. I will note that both Natal charts and Synastry map out the positions of the sun, moon, planets and other points of interest and additionally examine their mathematical relationships. They don't rely on "birth month"/sun sign as anything remotely resembling sufficient information.