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If moving stuff through the air would be cheaper than moving it by sea (fuel costs are a major part of shipping costs), then everything would be shipped by air.

If moving stuff through the air would be cheaper than moving it by sea (fuel costs are a major part of shipping costs), then everything would be shipped by air. This is not the case; sea is the default, and air is premium. Intuitively it makes sense that moving things through air requires more fuel than moving it by sea, since the airplane has to use fuel to offset its lack of buoyancy, while a ship only has to expend energy to actually move.

look_lookatme 7y ago
There's no way there's a world where everyone who needs to be in Europe next week from, say, New England, heads down to Boston to queue up for a utilitarian passenger ship that takes a week to cross the open ocean. How many people would you need to even justify the cost and environmental impact of moving such a ship? 300? 3,000? Cargo ships have thousands of containers on them (massive scale) and they move relatively slowly. This is not a reasonable comparison. You can't just pluck weight per-mile cost out of the air and apply it to passenger travel.
rvense 7y ago
But people aren't good. They would be on the ships for a long time and need to do people things, like eating and using the bathroom and not being bored. Hence cruise ships become floating cities with colossal energy usage and bad waste management.
- rvense 7y ago
  People aren't *goods!
IanCal 7y ago
> If moving stuff through the air would be cheaper than moving it by sea (fuel costs are a major part of shipping costs), then everything would be shipped by air. This is not the case; sea is the default, and air is premium. Price and pollution are wildly different beasts. Even the types of fuel are different. > Intuitively it makes sense that moving things through air requires more fuel than moving it by sea, since the airplane has to use fuel to offset its lack of buoyancy, while a ship only has to expend energy to actually move. However ships have to push their way through water rather than air. It's a lot harder to walk to the end of the swimming pool through the water than it is to walk 25 metres regularly. I don't think there's an intuitive answer to this.
alexhutcheson 7y ago
Shipping containers don't need food, fresh water, bathrooms, and space to move around.

look_lookatme 7y ago

There's no way there's a world where everyone who needs to be in Europe next week from, say, New England, heads down to Boston to queue up for a utilitarian passenger ship that takes a week to cross the open ocean. How many people would you need to even justify the cost and environmental impact of moving such a ship? 300? 3,000? Cargo ships have thousands of containers on them (massive scale) and they move relatively slowly. This is not a reasonable comparison. You can't just pluck weight per-mile cost out of the air and apply it to passenger travel.

rvense 7y ago

But people aren't good. They would be on the ships for a long time and need to do people things, like eating and using the bathroom and not being bored. Hence cruise ships become floating cities with colossal energy usage and bad waste management.

rvense 7y ago
People aren't *goods!

IanCal 7y ago

> If moving stuff through the air would be cheaper than moving it by sea (fuel costs are a major part of shipping costs), then everything would be shipped by air. This is not the case; sea is the default, and air is premium. Price and pollution are wildly different beasts. Even the types of fuel are different. > Intuitively it makes sense that moving things through air requires more fuel than moving it by sea, since the airplane has to use fuel to offset its lack of buoyancy, while a ship only has to expend energy to actually move. However ships have to push their way through water rather than air. It's a lot harder to walk to the end of the swimming pool through the water than it is to walk 25 metres regularly. I don't think there's an intuitive answer to this.

alexhutcheson 7y ago

Shipping containers don't need food, fresh water, bathrooms, and space to move around.