7 ms·

This may be an extreme outcome but excessive escalation by the police in America is also the norm. Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man

This may be an extreme outcome but excessive escalation by the police in America is also the norm. Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$).

fluffything 7y ago
Have a link?
- mattacular 7y ago
  I'm on my phone so it is a bit hard to collect the links as much of what I've seen has been from Twitter but if you go on there and search "NYPD subway" you'll find numerous videos and recent accounts.
- panic 7y ago
  I think this is the video they're referring to: https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130 https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130
  - ironchest 7y ago
    wat, is that for not paying the fair? that's utterly insane.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      No, they were responding to reports of a man with a gun, the man fled the cops into the subway, they followed him there when he managed to jump on a train and evade the cops. This video was them picking him up at the next station. They just stated the charge for arresting him was not paying the fare. You have a man that officers tried to question who fled into a subway train and who is reportedly armed. You’re picking him up at the next station from a loaded train on a crowded platform. Please with 20-20 hindsight spitball how you think this should have gone down? https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224... https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227...
      - ironchest 7y ago
        no, you're right. I was a bit too fast on judging. If they had reason to think he was armed, then I'm less uncomfortable. Thanks.
      - mattacular 7y ago
        That account (in the linked tweets) makes absolutely no sense. It actually brings up more questions than it answers. Since it's very vague we will just have to assume never once was the alleged gun found on the person they finally arrested or anyone else. It's of course unclear if he was actually the person "described" (as male, no further details given) in the report. And of course you'll also have to take the NYPD at their word in a prepared statement to the press as to the veracity of this report they allegedly received about "man with a gun." I wonder how'd they find this unrelated man without gun they ultimately arrested based on such a thorough description ... ?
        zaroth 7y ago
        If you want to make a summary judgement based on incomplete evidence, the only reasonable course of action is to assume the best of the person you are ruling against. That’s how it works in a court of law, but I find it’s a good way to catch yourself when drawing conclusions based on speculation. The video clearly shows a train with closed doors and large contingent of police corralling a specific train car and cornering a specific suspect. That seems to correlate well with an identified person who fled and got away at the prior station; they knew who they were going after, and had time to assemble a force to confront the person. Obviously the size of the force and the rapidity of response supports the notion that they thought the person was a danger and wanted to very quickly subdue them in a crowded area. All in all it seems like a professional operation designed to be prepared for a worst case scenario and to try to control a situation with potentially deadly consequences if it got out of hand. When someone is fleeing from the police and was reported to be armed, I would absolutely expect that they are going to take extreme precautions especially in a crowded space.
    - panic 7y ago
      Yeah, though no matter what his supposed crime, the situation is still absurd. It's clear from the video that he wasn't a danger to anyone nor resisting arrest in any way.
1984victim 7y ago
>but excessive escalation by the police No one can challenge the authority of the state and all its tentacles like a Giant Squid. Take common law (case law) which partly governs the 5eyes countrys, its a legal framework which are moving goal posts based on future events and decisions made by a judge or judges (ala UK Supreme Court for Brexit) which no one can predict except Dr Who travelling in his Tardis! Common Law sets everyone up to fail, so why doesn't the state recognise its own weaknesses and failings by insisting on tarring everyone with the same brush? I'm sure that person would have bought a ticket if their circumstances were different ala Eddie Murphy's Trading Places. We don't know the full in's and out, but only now with the help of technology can we start to learn what someone has been taught and understood learnt from various sources (parents, schools, peers, religions etc.) and then work out better if the act was intended or not. This relies heavily on medicine stepping up to the plate in order to quantify better our exposure to chemicals and environmental stimuli which control our decision making processes. Understand this and you have built a general AI.
readams 7y ago
It's more fair to say it rarely happens and when it does it makes the news.
chance_state 7y ago
>Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$). For anyone interested in the truth: they were responding to calls of a man with a gun in the train car. This wasn't simply a fare evasion.

fluffything 7y ago

Have a link?

mattacular 7y ago
I'm on my phone so it is a bit hard to collect the links as much of what I've seen has been from Twitter but if you go on there and search "NYPD subway" you'll find numerous videos and recent accounts.
panic 7y ago
I think this is the video they're referring to: https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130 https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130
- ironchest 7y ago
  wat, is that for not paying the fair? that's utterly insane.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    No, they were responding to reports of a man with a gun, the man fled the cops into the subway, they followed him there when he managed to jump on a train and evade the cops. This video was them picking him up at the next station. They just stated the charge for arresting him was not paying the fare. You have a man that officers tried to question who fled into a subway train and who is reportedly armed. You’re picking him up at the next station from a loaded train on a crowded platform. Please with 20-20 hindsight spitball how you think this should have gone down? https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224... https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227...
    - ironchest 7y ago
      no, you're right. I was a bit too fast on judging. If they had reason to think he was armed, then I'm less uncomfortable. Thanks.
    - mattacular 7y ago
      That account (in the linked tweets) makes absolutely no sense. It actually brings up more questions than it answers. Since it's very vague we will just have to assume never once was the alleged gun found on the person they finally arrested or anyone else. It's of course unclear if he was actually the person "described" (as male, no further details given) in the report. And of course you'll also have to take the NYPD at their word in a prepared statement to the press as to the veracity of this report they allegedly received about "man with a gun." I wonder how'd they find this unrelated man without gun they ultimately arrested based on such a thorough description ... ?
      - zaroth 7y ago
        If you want to make a summary judgement based on incomplete evidence, the only reasonable course of action is to assume the best of the person you are ruling against. That’s how it works in a court of law, but I find it’s a good way to catch yourself when drawing conclusions based on speculation. The video clearly shows a train with closed doors and large contingent of police corralling a specific train car and cornering a specific suspect. That seems to correlate well with an identified person who fled and got away at the prior station; they knew who they were going after, and had time to assemble a force to confront the person. Obviously the size of the force and the rapidity of response supports the notion that they thought the person was a danger and wanted to very quickly subdue them in a crowded area. All in all it seems like a professional operation designed to be prepared for a worst case scenario and to try to control a situation with potentially deadly consequences if it got out of hand. When someone is fleeing from the police and was reported to be armed, I would absolutely expect that they are going to take extreme precautions especially in a crowded space.
  - panic 7y ago
    Yeah, though no matter what his supposed crime, the situation is still absurd. It's clear from the video that he wasn't a danger to anyone nor resisting arrest in any way.

1984victim 7y ago

>but excessive escalation by the police No one can challenge the authority of the state and all its tentacles like a Giant Squid. Take common law (case law) which partly governs the 5eyes countrys, its a legal framework which are moving goal posts based on future events and decisions made by a judge or judges (ala UK Supreme Court for Brexit) which no one can predict except Dr Who travelling in his Tardis! Common Law sets everyone up to fail, so why doesn't the state recognise its own weaknesses and failings by insisting on tarring everyone with the same brush? I'm sure that person would have bought a ticket if their circumstances were different ala Eddie Murphy's Trading Places. We don't know the full in's and out, but only now with the help of technology can we start to learn what someone has been taught and understood learnt from various sources (parents, schools, peers, religions etc.) and then work out better if the act was intended or not. This relies heavily on medicine stepping up to the plate in order to quantify better our exposure to chemicals and environmental stimuli which control our decision making processes. Understand this and you have built a general AI.

readams 7y ago

It's more fair to say it rarely happens and when it does it makes the news.

chance_state 7y ago

>Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$). For anyone interested in the truth: they were responding to calls of a man with a gun in the train car. This wasn't simply a fare evasion.