4 ms·

I'm just amazed at how the theft of two belts and a shirt from Walmart escalated to the point where a house blew up. It's like something out of a comedy calamit

I'm just amazed at how the theft of two belts and a shirt from Walmart escalated to the point where a house blew up. It's like something out of a comedy calamity movie. How common is escalation like this during the course of law enforcement? (I'm hoping this is an extreme case?)

akerro 7y ago
There more extreme cases: >Who Pays When The DEA Destroys Your Vehicle And Kills Your Employee During A Botched Sting? Hint: Not The DEA https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150428/16401530826/who-pays-when-dea-destroys-your-vehicle-kills-your-employee-during-botched-sting-hint-not-dea.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150428/16401530826/who-p...
- huffmsa 7y ago
  > The judge points out that Villasana also testified that he was "not aware" of any policy instructing him to notify the vehicle's owner of its potential use in a drug sting operation Ah, ignorance of the law. Fine for them, not for you. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
  - hanlonGetFucked 7y ago
    With the DEA's penchant for "parallel construction" on the table, other ideas enjoy improved probability. If the DEA is often drawing upon unconstitutional sources of information to build constitutional evidence as it constructs cases against organized crime, what does it do with unconstitutional information in all other situations? Answer: whatever it wants. Hanlon's razor must be deemed dull and rusty here, since the posture and stance of the DEA reeks of malice, and parallel construction techniques certainly preclude ignorance, if not incompetence. Maybe the DEA had a clue about why a small time trucker might make for such a useful idiot. Maybe they had a clue about how to lean on someone in just the right way, to march them into suicidal danger. Maybe they knew they were going to walk away from this disaster in the making, before they even approached the guys, and they their hands would stay clean. Maybe they arrived at a decision that they couldn't bring a case against this guy, but they could definitely take his company out of the game, and they decided that they knew enough turn a blind eye to absolutely lethal moral hazards, and hobble a company they disdained. It probably smells like an extrajudicial action because it is.
- appstateguy 7y ago
  Reading through the article's comments there's one from "LegalBeagle" that criticizes the man's lawyer for using the wrong argument in the lawsuit, and instead should've filed the lawsuit as a violation of the 5th Amendment. Luckily he must've gotten a better lawyer, because an appeal was allowed to continue under grounds the DEA violated the Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment: > Because plaintiffs have stated facts sufficient to demonstrate that the government physically deprived them of property for the duration of the controlled drug delivery operation, we hold that plaintiffs have stated a claim for a taking compensable under the Fifth Amendment. We therefore deny defendant’s motion to dismiss pursuant to Rules 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6). https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4467728/patty-v-united-states/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4467728/patty-v-united...
mattacular 7y ago
This may be an extreme outcome but excessive escalation by the police in America is also the norm. Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$).
- fluffything 7y ago
  Have a link?
  - mattacular 7y ago
    I'm on my phone so it is a bit hard to collect the links as much of what I've seen has been from Twitter but if you go on there and search "NYPD subway" you'll find numerous videos and recent accounts.
  - panic 7y ago
    I think this is the video they're referring to: https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130 https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130
    - ironchest 7y ago
      wat, is that for not paying the fair? that's utterly insane.
      - zaroth 7y ago
        No, they were responding to reports of a man with a gun, the man fled the cops into the subway, they followed him there when he managed to jump on a train and evade the cops. This video was them picking him up at the next station. They just stated the charge for arresting him was not paying the fare. You have a man that officers tried to question who fled into a subway train and who is reportedly armed. You’re picking him up at the next station from a loaded train on a crowded platform. Please with 20-20 hindsight spitball how you think this should have gone down? https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224... https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227...
superhuzza 7y ago
It makes me think of Brazil(1985). Cops searching for a minor criminal blow up someone's home, ruin their life, and then disappear into a maze of bureaucracy and paperwork.
merpnderp 7y ago
So your rules would allow people to steal as long as they use a gun and then shoot at the police? “Okay Fred, he’s got a gun and oh yep, he just fired at us, time to let him go. He really earned those belts this time.”

akerro 7y ago

There more extreme cases: >Who Pays When The DEA Destroys Your Vehicle And Kills Your Employee During A Botched Sting? Hint: Not The DEA https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150428/16401530826/who-pays-when-dea-destroys-your-vehicle-kills-your-employee-during-botched-sting-hint-not-dea.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150428/16401530826/who-p...

huffmsa 7y ago
> The judge points out that Villasana also testified that he was "not aware" of any policy instructing him to notify the vehicle's owner of its potential use in a drug sting operation Ah, ignorance of the law. Fine for them, not for you. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
- hanlonGetFucked 7y ago
  With the DEA's penchant for "parallel construction" on the table, other ideas enjoy improved probability. If the DEA is often drawing upon unconstitutional sources of information to build constitutional evidence as it constructs cases against organized crime, what does it do with unconstitutional information in all other situations? Answer: whatever it wants. Hanlon's razor must be deemed dull and rusty here, since the posture and stance of the DEA reeks of malice, and parallel construction techniques certainly preclude ignorance, if not incompetence. Maybe the DEA had a clue about why a small time trucker might make for such a useful idiot. Maybe they had a clue about how to lean on someone in just the right way, to march them into suicidal danger. Maybe they knew they were going to walk away from this disaster in the making, before they even approached the guys, and they their hands would stay clean. Maybe they arrived at a decision that they couldn't bring a case against this guy, but they could definitely take his company out of the game, and they decided that they knew enough turn a blind eye to absolutely lethal moral hazards, and hobble a company they disdained. It probably smells like an extrajudicial action because it is.
appstateguy 7y ago
Reading through the article's comments there's one from "LegalBeagle" that criticizes the man's lawyer for using the wrong argument in the lawsuit, and instead should've filed the lawsuit as a violation of the 5th Amendment. Luckily he must've gotten a better lawyer, because an appeal was allowed to continue under grounds the DEA violated the Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment: > Because plaintiffs have stated facts sufficient to demonstrate that the government physically deprived them of property for the duration of the controlled drug delivery operation, we hold that plaintiffs have stated a claim for a taking compensable under the Fifth Amendment. We therefore deny defendant’s motion to dismiss pursuant to Rules 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6). https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4467728/patty-v-united-states/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4467728/patty-v-united...

mattacular 7y ago

This may be an extreme outcome but excessive escalation by the police in America is also the norm. Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$).

fluffything 7y ago
Have a link?
- mattacular 7y ago
  I'm on my phone so it is a bit hard to collect the links as much of what I've seen has been from Twitter but if you go on there and search "NYPD subway" you'll find numerous videos and recent accounts.
- panic 7y ago
  I think this is the video they're referring to: https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130 https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130
  - ironchest 7y ago
    wat, is that for not paying the fair? that's utterly insane.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      No, they were responding to reports of a man with a gun, the man fled the cops into the subway, they followed him there when he managed to jump on a train and evade the cops. This video was them picking him up at the next station. They just stated the charge for arresting him was not paying the fare. You have a man that officers tried to question who fled into a subway train and who is reportedly armed. You’re picking him up at the next station from a loaded train on a crowded platform. Please with 20-20 hindsight spitball how you think this should have gone down? https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188216667127476224... https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227?s=20 https://twitter.com/DMoritzRabson/status/1188553063738548227...

superhuzza 7y ago

It makes me think of Brazil(1985). Cops searching for a minor criminal blow up someone's home, ruin their life, and then disappear into a maze of bureaucracy and paperwork.

merpnderp 7y ago

So your rules would allow people to steal as long as they use a gun and then shoot at the police? “Okay Fred, he’s got a gun and oh yep, he just fired at us, time to let him go. He really earned those belts this time.”