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I like an analysis that includes operations and logistics, which is how long or large campaigns are won or lost. >It is hard to avoid the conclusion that while

by Isamu 7y ago

I like an analysis that includes operations and logistics, which is how long or large campaigns are won or lost. >It is hard to avoid the conclusion that while Spartan tactics may have been modestly better than most other Greek states, Spartan operations were dismal, placing severe limits on how effectively the Spartan army could be utilized. You may have the best soldiers – and again, Sparta does not appear to have always had the best soldiers – but they are of no use if you cannot get them to the fight, with the equipment (e.g. siege tools, ships) they need to win the fight.

sandworm101 7y ago
>> if you cannot get them to the fight, with the equipment (e.g. siege tools, ships) they need to win the fight. That is one area where modern warfare is very different than ancient warfare. Siege weapons were not normally 'brought'. They were created when and as needed. An ancient engineer could turn a forest into a trebuchet, something akin to a modern engineer building a fighter jet out of rocks. So too with food. Ancient armies lived off the land. They pillaged and took what they needed. The concept of moving food to feed an army on a distant shore was just not an option as recently as WWI.
- jcranmer 7y ago
  While it's true that siege weapons and food were not transported via supply lines in the sense that modern militaries plan for it, that doesn't mean that logistics wasn't an important concept in Classical Greece. Even if you're living off the land, you still have to actually figure out how to transform the local produce into food, and actually procure sufficient local produce (if you're settling down for a siege, you can't exactly rely only on the nearest fields). Sparta's attempt to lay siege to Athens failed several years in a row entirely because they couldn't manage to support that level of logistical sophistication, which is a pretty indicting failure, even given the simpler problem it was 2500 years ago.
- mhink 7y ago
  For a more fun take on this, the author also has an extremely thorough analysis of the “military history” in Lord of the Rings. He specifically discusses siege engines in the context of the Battle of the Pellenor and food supplies in the context of Aragorn’s campaign to Mordor immediately thereafter.

by Isamu 7y ago

sandworm101 7y ago

>> if you cannot get them to the fight, with the equipment (e.g. siege tools, ships) they need to win the fight. That is one area where modern warfare is very different than ancient warfare. Siege weapons were not normally 'brought'. They were created when and as needed. An ancient engineer could turn a forest into a trebuchet, something akin to a modern engineer building a fighter jet out of rocks. So too with food. Ancient armies lived off the land. They pillaged and took what they needed. The concept of moving food to feed an army on a distant shore was just not an option as recently as WWI.

jcranmer 7y ago
While it's true that siege weapons and food were not transported via supply lines in the sense that modern militaries plan for it, that doesn't mean that logistics wasn't an important concept in Classical Greece. Even if you're living off the land, you still have to actually figure out how to transform the local produce into food, and actually procure sufficient local produce (if you're settling down for a siege, you can't exactly rely only on the nearest fields). Sparta's attempt to lay siege to Athens failed several years in a row entirely because they couldn't manage to support that level of logistical sophistication, which is a pretty indicting failure, even given the simpler problem it was 2500 years ago.
mhink 7y ago
For a more fun take on this, the author also has an extremely thorough analysis of the “military history” in Lord of the Rings. He specifically discusses siege engines in the context of the Battle of the Pellenor and food supplies in the context of Aragorn’s campaign to Mordor immediately thereafter.