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> North Korea You cannot simply make a comparison of X democracy today (or dictatorship in this case) to a city-state of Ancient Greece. Back then it was do or

> North Korea You cannot simply make a comparison of X democracy today (or dictatorship in this case) to a city-state of Ancient Greece. Back then it was do or die. Wars were in the daily menu. For a state that was isolated geographically (in comparison to other powerful/richer city-states like Athens or Messina, the only way to stay alive is brute force, be the ultimate killing machine. The landscape also didn't help much. Stuck between two mountains, path to the north lead nowhere, sea to the south was 30-40km away. Perfect place to make it difficult to be invaded but poor enough to not thrive. Also.. creativity? I would need creativity to beat a MMA pro in a fight. On his side, he would just throw a punch. Creativity is for the weak! (like me)

jcranmer 7y ago
Except Sparta doesn't seem to have actually been particularly successful militarily, instead relying more on a reputation for military success, according to this analysis.
- yongjik 7y ago
  ...so, more like North Korea? :) "Get out of my way! I'm a crazy madman who may start war at the slightest provocation, and I don't care that it will also kill me!" has been NK's signature shtick for decades. Other than a few nukes and a crapton of grunt soldiers, their military power is actually rather underwhelming.
nabla9 7y ago
"Was like North Korea of Ancient Greece" was not direct comparison. It's relative analogy like chicken:egg :: tree:seed. Sparta:Athens :: North Korea:South Korea Sparta was to Athens like North Korea is to South Korea.
vkou 7y ago
North Korea is actually a very apt analogy, because ~85% of people living in Sparta were chattel slaves... Who were, as part of a Spartan citizen's right of passage into manhood (And, in addition to that, as a fun annual holiday), were hunted, and killed for sport. Actually, even North Korea sounds like the worker's paradise, in comparison. (And no, this state of affairs was not common among Mediterranean city states. Athens and later Rome had a ~50% slave population, and (legally) considered killing a slave to be murder.) As for staying alive through brute force, I may observe that your city-state may be able to stay alive more successfully, if it didn't spend most of its time warring against its own enslaved people. Which is what the Spartans did. (Hint: Hunting your slaves for sport does not endear you to them... In a state where 6 out of 7 men are enslaved, and two thirds of the freedmen hate the guts of the ruling class.)

jcranmer 7y ago

Except Sparta doesn't seem to have actually been particularly successful militarily, instead relying more on a reputation for military success, according to this analysis.

yongjik 7y ago
...so, more like North Korea? :) "Get out of my way! I'm a crazy madman who may start war at the slightest provocation, and I don't care that it will also kill me!" has been NK's signature shtick for decades. Other than a few nukes and a crapton of grunt soldiers, their military power is actually rather underwhelming.

nabla9 7y ago

"Was like North Korea of Ancient Greece" was not direct comparison. It's relative analogy like chicken:egg :: tree:seed. Sparta:Athens :: North Korea:South Korea Sparta was to Athens like North Korea is to South Korea.

vkou 7y ago

North Korea is actually a very apt analogy, because ~85% of people living in Sparta were chattel slaves... Who were, as part of a Spartan citizen's right of passage into manhood (And, in addition to that, as a fun annual holiday), were hunted, and killed for sport. Actually, even North Korea sounds like the worker's paradise, in comparison. (And no, this state of affairs was not common among Mediterranean city states. Athens and later Rome had a ~50% slave population, and (legally) considered killing a slave to be murder.) As for staying alive through brute force, I may observe that your city-state may be able to stay alive more successfully, if it didn't spend most of its time warring against its own enslaved people. Which is what the Spartans did. (Hint: Hunting your slaves for sport does not endear you to them... In a state where 6 out of 7 men are enslaved, and two thirds of the freedmen hate the guts of the ruling class.)