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Epstein was taken off suicide watch though. Edit: the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, and lots of other stuff worth looking in to. Just pointing out

by sp332 7y ago

Epstein was taken off suicide watch though. Edit: the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, and lots of other stuff worth looking in to. Just pointing out that he wasn't on suicide watch at the time.

jacobush 7y ago
It would seem if someone were to murder him, it would be prudent to take him off suicide watch first.
- dannypgh 7y ago
  ...but surely it's also the case that successful suicide is more likely when someone is taken off of suicide watch, no? Citing this as evidence of malicious intent seems like a reach.
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    He supposedly tried to kill himself 18 days prior, and he was a witness who could potentially spill the beans on a bunch of wealthy kid fucks (and whoever had blackmail against them, if Epstein wasn't the ultimate top of this pedo pyramid). Yes, not monitoring the arrested billionaire pedophile who had been fucking kids with other billionaires and political figures who control the country, right after a first "suicide" attempt is made, seems sketch as fuck. If they're not complicit in whatever happened, the TLAs would have had an obvious interest in monitoring that cell. Does the federal government not care about knowing if a foreign power has videos of a former President (and quite possibly a sitting one, though we don't have flight records) raping kids, or is the federal government incapable of monitoring a man in prison? I was expecting Epstein to die before trial, but I was still surpised by how brazen it was. This is the most obvious American deepstate murder since Michael Hastings.
    - cc81 7y ago
      So why didn't Epstein arrange so any attempt on his life would result on all the dirt on people being sent out? Why didn't Epstein tell the prosecution "Holy fuck, people are trying to kill me, I want a protection and a deal and I will tell on everyone" after the first attempt?
      - blotter_paper 7y ago
        I don't know how intelligent Epstein was or how much he knew. It's possible that those CDs they took from his locked safe[0] were the only insurance policy he had: > Federal agents who searched Epstein's $77 million Upper East Side townhouse in Manhattan also found "in a locked safe ... compact discs with hand-written labels including the following: 'Young [Name] + [Name],' 'Misc nudes 1,' and 'Girl pics nudes,' " according to a new court filing in Epstein's case. I can't find anything about what was on those tapes, what names were actually written on them, if the were encrypted, or if any followup investigation is being done, but maybe my googlefu is just weak. He certainly could have hired somebody competent enough to write a dead man's switch which would release the files if he didn't run a script every X months, but only if he was intelligent and knowledgable enough to come up with that plan in the first place. He could have known that he had no undeniable evidence left in his hands. He could have taken the first attempt as a message, and thought that keeping his head low and shutting up was his best chance at avoiding further trouble. He could have understood his time was limited while also still supporting the greater mission of the blackmail plot and not being willing to blow the cover on his handlers. These are all speculations, I don't know exactly how the events played out. I'd even give the body-double crowd a ~5% chance of being right (but that's a crit fail on a d20; 5% isn't much). I do feel comfortable saying that Epstein almost certainly photographed a former President raping a child, which screams "state actor blackmail," and it seems highly unlikely to me that such a man wasn't being watched by the TLAs unless they were purposefully turning a blind eye. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-called-sexual-predator-as-prosecutors-seek-no-bail.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-called-s...
ddingus 7y ago
Should he have been?
- BubRoss 7y ago
  That's not the issue with regards to the parent comment. The parent said he couldn't believe someone could kill themselves in a bare cell meant to stop people from suicide, but that's not where he was.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    Exactly, thus my question.
    - BubRoss 7y ago
      What do you mean 'thus your question'? That's the first question everyone has, why would you ask it in an irrelevant chain of replies to someone who wasn't commenting on it in the first place?
      - ddingus 7y ago
        I don't know that's the 1st question everyone has. I do know this meta discussion is unlikely to be worth it, and I am quite happy to move on.
DanBC 7y ago
> the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, What is being counted, and how is it being counted? For example, what has to happen for it to be counted as a death by suicide in that prison? Is it enough for the self injurious act have to occur in the prison, or does the person have to die in the prison?

by sp332 7y ago

jacobush 7y ago

It would seem if someone were to murder him, it would be prudent to take him off suicide watch first.

dannypgh 7y ago
...but surely it's also the case that successful suicide is more likely when someone is taken off of suicide watch, no? Citing this as evidence of malicious intent seems like a reach.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  He supposedly tried to kill himself 18 days prior, and he was a witness who could potentially spill the beans on a bunch of wealthy kid fucks (and whoever had blackmail against them, if Epstein wasn't the ultimate top of this pedo pyramid). Yes, not monitoring the arrested billionaire pedophile who had been fucking kids with other billionaires and political figures who control the country, right after a first "suicide" attempt is made, seems sketch as fuck. If they're not complicit in whatever happened, the TLAs would have had an obvious interest in monitoring that cell. Does the federal government not care about knowing if a foreign power has videos of a former President (and quite possibly a sitting one, though we don't have flight records) raping kids, or is the federal government incapable of monitoring a man in prison? I was expecting Epstein to die before trial, but I was still surpised by how brazen it was. This is the most obvious American deepstate murder since Michael Hastings.
  - cc81 7y ago
    So why didn't Epstein arrange so any attempt on his life would result on all the dirt on people being sent out? Why didn't Epstein tell the prosecution "Holy fuck, people are trying to kill me, I want a protection and a deal and I will tell on everyone" after the first attempt?
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      I don't know how intelligent Epstein was or how much he knew. It's possible that those CDs they took from his locked safe[0] were the only insurance policy he had: > Federal agents who searched Epstein's $77 million Upper East Side townhouse in Manhattan also found "in a locked safe ... compact discs with hand-written labels including the following: 'Young [Name] + [Name],' 'Misc nudes 1,' and 'Girl pics nudes,' " according to a new court filing in Epstein's case. I can't find anything about what was on those tapes, what names were actually written on them, if the were encrypted, or if any followup investigation is being done, but maybe my googlefu is just weak. He certainly could have hired somebody competent enough to write a dead man's switch which would release the files if he didn't run a script every X months, but only if he was intelligent and knowledgable enough to come up with that plan in the first place. He could have known that he had no undeniable evidence left in his hands. He could have taken the first attempt as a message, and thought that keeping his head low and shutting up was his best chance at avoiding further trouble. He could have understood his time was limited while also still supporting the greater mission of the blackmail plot and not being willing to blow the cover on his handlers. These are all speculations, I don't know exactly how the events played out. I'd even give the body-double crowd a ~5% chance of being right (but that's a crit fail on a d20; 5% isn't much). I do feel comfortable saying that Epstein almost certainly photographed a former President raping a child, which screams "state actor blackmail," and it seems highly unlikely to me that such a man wasn't being watched by the TLAs unless they were purposefully turning a blind eye. [0]: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-called-sexual-predator-as-prosecutors-seek-no-bail.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-called-s...

ddingus 7y ago

Should he have been?

BubRoss 7y ago
That's not the issue with regards to the parent comment. The parent said he couldn't believe someone could kill themselves in a bare cell meant to stop people from suicide, but that's not where he was.
- ddingus 7y ago
  Exactly, thus my question.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    What do you mean 'thus your question'? That's the first question everyone has, why would you ask it in an irrelevant chain of replies to someone who wasn't commenting on it in the first place?
    - ddingus 7y ago
      I don't know that's the 1st question everyone has. I do know this meta discussion is unlikely to be worth it, and I am quite happy to move on.

DanBC 7y ago

> the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, What is being counted, and how is it being counted? For example, what has to happen for it to be counted as a death by suicide in that prison? Is it enough for the self injurious act have to occur in the prison, or does the person have to die in the prison?