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> I highly value freedom of expression, and to me it is especially important to me that a code-hosting and (like it or not) a social media website holds to that

> I highly value freedom of expression, and to me it is especially important to me that a code-hosting and (like it or not) a social media website holds to that value as well. This will definitely affect whether I choose Github or Microsoft in the future. Would you rather choose a company that doesn't comply with local laws? Most governments ( no doubt, yours too), want companies operating under their jurisdiction to obey their laws (Things get complicated on the web but the basic premise holds), to say nothing of the fact that freedom of speech is not absolute (not condoning or condemning the current action)

typenil 7y ago
Gotta point out that the comment pretty clearly indicated that GitHub should cease to operate in Spain. Not operating somewhere doesn’t violate local laws.
crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
I would love to see civil disobedience at a corporate level. That level of bravery is so rare and so necessary.
- sneak 7y ago
  "Corporate level" doesn't exist when you're talking about things termed criminal. Criminal charges are levied at individuals, not companies, because companies cannot act-only people can. It doesn't end well for the people, sadly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio
mindB 7y ago
>Would you rather choose a company that doesn't comply with local laws? Absolutely. Companies and the individuals who make up companies should not comply with unethical laws just as people at large should not comply with unethical laws. Ethics stands above the law.
- reallydontask 7y ago
  >Ethics stands above the law This is pretty naive Who decides what is ethical? I might think it's unethical to finance my government given its record of military adventures around the world. Does that mean that I'm off the hook on income tax?
  - mindB 7y ago
    >This is pretty naive I think you may be misunderstanding me. Ethics stands above the law in that if ethics and law conflict, a person ought to do the ethical thing rather than the legal thing. It does not mean that people who disobey the law should be off the hook so long as they were obeying their own personal code of ethics. If this view is naive, then I believe most all work in moral philosophy is naive. I don't think there are any major viewpoints that would elevate obedience to the law as being a concern higher than ethical behavior. Do you think that the entire field of business ethics is bunk and can be reduced to the single maxim, "Follow the local law"? Is the code of ethics by which I would be required to abide[1] if I became a professional engineer an unnecessary restriction? [1] https://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics https://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  If what was "unethical" was inscribed on stone tablets by God, then that would be a decent position. But I don't want companies deciding for themselves what is unethical; they are not unbiased actors and are incentivized to define "ethical" as whatever makes them the most profit. Do you want companies deciding for themselves that labor/environmental/financial regulations are unethical?
msla 7y ago
> Would you rather choose a company that doesn't comply with local laws? If I made an app which mocked the King of Thailand, and Thailand demanded Github remove the app because it's against Thai law to mock the King of Thailand, what would you want to happen? How about an app which helped Uighurs avoid concentration camps, which China demanded the removal of?

typenil 7y ago

Gotta point out that the comment pretty clearly indicated that GitHub should cease to operate in Spain. Not operating somewhere doesn’t violate local laws.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago

I would love to see civil disobedience at a corporate level. That level of bravery is so rare and so necessary.

sneak 7y ago
"Corporate level" doesn't exist when you're talking about things termed criminal. Criminal charges are levied at individuals, not companies, because companies cannot act-only people can. It doesn't end well for the people, sadly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio

mindB 7y ago

>Would you rather choose a company that doesn't comply with local laws? Absolutely. Companies and the individuals who make up companies should not comply with unethical laws just as people at large should not comply with unethical laws. Ethics stands above the law.

reallydontask 7y ago
>Ethics stands above the law This is pretty naive Who decides what is ethical? I might think it's unethical to finance my government given its record of military adventures around the world. Does that mean that I'm off the hook on income tax?
- mindB 7y ago
  >This is pretty naive I think you may be misunderstanding me. Ethics stands above the law in that if ethics and law conflict, a person ought to do the ethical thing rather than the legal thing. It does not mean that people who disobey the law should be off the hook so long as they were obeying their own personal code of ethics. If this view is naive, then I believe most all work in moral philosophy is naive. I don't think there are any major viewpoints that would elevate obedience to the law as being a concern higher than ethical behavior. Do you think that the entire field of business ethics is bunk and can be reduced to the single maxim, "Follow the local law"? Is the code of ethics by which I would be required to abide[1] if I became a professional engineer an unnecessary restriction? [1] https://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics https://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics
Analemma_ 7y ago
If what was "unethical" was inscribed on stone tablets by God, then that would be a decent position. But I don't want companies deciding for themselves what is unethical; they are not unbiased actors and are incentivized to define "ethical" as whatever makes them the most profit. Do you want companies deciding for themselves that labor/environmental/financial regulations are unethical?

msla 7y ago

> Would you rather choose a company that doesn't comply with local laws? If I made an app which mocked the King of Thailand, and Thailand demanded Github remove the app because it's against Thai law to mock the King of Thailand, what would you want to happen? How about an app which helped Uighurs avoid concentration camps, which China demanded the removal of?