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You can certainly be angry at Github for complying. People break the law all the time in order to do what is moral. Look at Chelsea Manning who's in jail right

You can certainly be angry at Github for complying. People break the law all the time in order to do what is moral. Look at Chelsea Manning who's in jail right now for just that.

DangerousPie 7y ago
This may be very selfish of me but I'd prefer if Github didn't get shut down over some political argument that I'm not a party in. It would also involve Github taking sides in a very divise political issue that is far from black and white.
- input_sh 7y ago
  What mechanism could a Spanish court use to shut down an American multi-billion dollar company? At worst, it could get GitHub blocked in Spain, or a local Microsoft office might get a stern look or two before Spain renews its Office 365 contract or whatever.
  - Karunamon 7y ago
    GitHub being shut down in Spain for ignoring a court order is more harmful than one repo being blocked by a court order, imo. There seems to be this belief in the atmosphere that companies of all sizes should blithely ignore content takedowns when the alternative is large fines or exclusion from a country. This is not a realistic demand and you will be disappointed every time if you maintain it.
  - diggan 7y ago
    Interesting but off-topic none-the-less: lots of the regional governments in Spain is using open source software for their offices, like LibreOffice. I know both Valencia and Catalan governments are vocal about using and developing open source software.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    A spanish court could order spanish ISPs to block GitHub until they obey their order. They could also charge spanish Microsoft executives with disobedience, contempt or something similar.
    - sneak 7y ago
      > They could also charge spanish Microsoft executives with disobedience, contempt or something similar. Unlikely, as the local executives likely didn't make this decision and don't have control over it. Guilt by association (employer) is not legal, even in Spain.
      - matheusmoreira 7y ago
        Google and Facebook executives operating in my country have been arrested for failing to comply with court orders. https://www.theverge.com/2012/9/26/3413476/google-brazil-you-tube-arrest https://www.theverge.com/2012/9/26/3413476/google-brazil-you... https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-executive-arrested-in-brazil-1456851506 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-executive-arrested-in-... I wouldn't rule it out regardless of the country involved.
    - armadillu 7y ago
      They have already done that at DNS level. Most ISPs in Spain have configured their DNSs servers to redirect tsunamidemocratic.github.io to 127.0.0.1 https://twitter.com/armadillu/status/1186315453108555778?s=20 https://twitter.com/armadillu/status/1186315453108555778?s=2...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
braythwayt 7y ago
I'm well to the left of Hacker News, but on this point we disagree. If we get angry with people for not breaking the law, we create an environment where people pretend to be activists to avoid our wrath. That removes the biggest and most important component of activism: People's authentic willingness to sacrifice in exchange for the greatest good. People need to make a free and willing choice to engage in civil disobedience. --- Now that being said, there's another thing on which we might agree. Even if they don't break the law, I am prepared to disapprove of companies that are complicit in wrongdoing. Complicity is looking the other way or participating. For example, supplying goods and services to ICE is being be complicit in ICE's actions. I am not going to be angry with someone who complies with a court order to supply, say, employee information to ICE. But I will be angry with a company--cough, Microsoft, cough--who provides billions of dollars in services to ICE.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  All anger is allowable. Caretaking for an activist's response to hearing anger is codependent. How is your stance not in line with people insisting on niceness from people belonging to historically oppressed classes? Shutting down emotions isn't activism. Standing in solidarity and elevating the voice of the oppressed, angry or not, is.

You can certainly be angry at Github for complying. People break the law all the time in order to do what is moral. Look at Chelsea Manning who's in jail right now for just that.

DangerousPie 7y ago

This may be very selfish of me but I'd prefer if Github didn't get shut down over some political argument that I'm not a party in. It would also involve Github taking sides in a very divise political issue that is far from black and white.

input_sh 7y ago
What mechanism could a Spanish court use to shut down an American multi-billion dollar company? At worst, it could get GitHub blocked in Spain, or a local Microsoft office might get a stern look or two before Spain renews its Office 365 contract or whatever.
- Karunamon 7y ago
  GitHub being shut down in Spain for ignoring a court order is more harmful than one repo being blocked by a court order, imo. There seems to be this belief in the atmosphere that companies of all sizes should blithely ignore content takedowns when the alternative is large fines or exclusion from a country. This is not a realistic demand and you will be disappointed every time if you maintain it.
- diggan 7y ago
  Interesting but off-topic none-the-less: lots of the regional governments in Spain is using open source software for their offices, like LibreOffice. I know both Valencia and Catalan governments are vocal about using and developing open source software.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  A spanish court could order spanish ISPs to block GitHub until they obey their order. They could also charge spanish Microsoft executives with disobedience, contempt or something similar.
  - sneak 7y ago
    > They could also charge spanish Microsoft executives with disobedience, contempt or something similar. Unlikely, as the local executives likely didn't make this decision and don't have control over it. Guilt by association (employer) is not legal, even in Spain.
    - matheusmoreira 7y ago
      Google and Facebook executives operating in my country have been arrested for failing to comply with court orders. https://www.theverge.com/2012/9/26/3413476/google-brazil-you-tube-arrest https://www.theverge.com/2012/9/26/3413476/google-brazil-you... https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-executive-arrested-in-brazil-1456851506 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-executive-arrested-in-... I wouldn't rule it out regardless of the country involved.
  - armadillu 7y ago
    They have already done that at DNS level. Most ISPs in Spain have configured their DNSs servers to redirect tsunamidemocratic.github.io to 127.0.0.1 https://twitter.com/armadillu/status/1186315453108555778?s=20 https://twitter.com/armadillu/status/1186315453108555778?s=2...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

braythwayt 7y ago

I'm well to the left of Hacker News, but on this point we disagree. If we get angry with people for not breaking the law, we create an environment where people pretend to be activists to avoid our wrath. That removes the biggest and most important component of activism: People's authentic willingness to sacrifice in exchange for the greatest good. People need to make a free and willing choice to engage in civil disobedience. --- Now that being said, there's another thing on which we might agree. Even if they don't break the law, I am prepared to disapprove of companies that are complicit in wrongdoing. Complicity is looking the other way or participating. For example, supplying goods and services to ICE is being be complicit in ICE's actions. I am not going to be angry with someone who complies with a court order to supply, say, employee information to ICE. But I will be angry with a company--cough, Microsoft, cough--who provides billions of dollars in services to ICE.

crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
All anger is allowable. Caretaking for an activist's response to hearing anger is codependent. How is your stance not in line with people insisting on niceness from people belonging to historically oppressed classes? Shutting down emotions isn't activism. Standing in solidarity and elevating the voice of the oppressed, angry or not, is.