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The fact remains that moderating forums is labor, and stack exchange receives a lot of value from that labor that the mods themselves don't see a dime of.

davidgh 7y ago
Yes, but ...arrgh... they are doing this of their own free will and choice, perhaps because they enjoy it, they increase their social interactions, increase their skills... etc. It seems contrary to the concept of freedom if private parties cannot engage in such a relationship, if each and both so choose.
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  The idea behind these laws limit the extent that people can circumvent minimum wage. It also prevents de facto enslavement or indentured servitude, but probably to a lesser degree. This type of discussion usually comes up in the context of internship positions, where federally an unpaid internship must not displace employees and must provide no value to the employer.
- DoctorNick 7y ago
  I'm not saying that the situation is necessarily bad, or that the people who willingly do this for free are suckers. I can't speak for them, and I don't know the conditions that the moderators labor under. All I'm saying that the situation is still exploitation, no matter how you cut it. More and more businesses derive their main value from unpaid contributors, and it's something that should give us all pause.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
I run a forum and there's no shortage of people who would happily volunteer for a mod role. You have it wrong though: they get plenty of compensation through reputation, clout, and a feeling of power over their peers and being heard and helping out in a community that they love (or some combo of these). That's why they do it. Why is that not a fair trade without money exchanging hands? Growing up, I used to mow an aging neighbor's lawn because he was basically couch-ridden. It made me feel good to help someone else out. Was I being exploited and should I have demanded payment, or was that just a fair trade that I volunteered for and could quit at any time? Or look no further than HN. Participating on this forum writing content and enriching YC's coffers is "labor". And our compensation is procrastination and venting and feeling some satisfaction for scrawling our opinions online. If we didn't like that deal, we wouldn't be here.
- DoctorNick 7y ago
  The thing is, the service and main value that Stack Exchange provides is literally a moderated forum for people to ask and answer questions. Without that moderation, the service would be much less valuable, because it would be full of spam and worthless questions and answers, and less people would use it. This is what drives their revenue and their valuation. This isn't the case with HN, where the main contribution of the forums to their business is mainly brand recognition.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
    And where HN has paid, full-time mods. dang and sctb. Even just for the brand recognition!
- ahbyb 7y ago
  >I run a forum and there's no shortage of people who would happily volunteer for a mod role. There's no shortage of people who want to be rulers of a community. Of those, it is always hard to find the ones who are actually fit for that purpose.
- Johnny555 7y ago
  have it wrong though: they get plenty of compensation through reputation, clout, and a feeling of power over their peers That sounds a lot like the "social influencer" pitches to get free stuff in return for "exposure".
mantap 7y ago
Should we require the elderly to pay their adult children minimum wage for looking after them? Because that is far more like work than being a moderator on a website.
- undecisive 7y ago
  If the elderly person requires the child to wear a tee-shirt with and advert on, which the elderly person earns money off, and the elderly person is getting rich off asking the child to look after them for "good will" then... yeah, they probably should be paid. It's not charity, it's not family, it's exploitation.

davidgh 7y ago

Yes, but ...arrgh... they are doing this of their own free will and choice, perhaps because they enjoy it, they increase their social interactions, increase their skills... etc. It seems contrary to the concept of freedom if private parties cannot engage in such a relationship, if each and both so choose.

snagglegaggle 7y ago
The idea behind these laws limit the extent that people can circumvent minimum wage. It also prevents de facto enslavement or indentured servitude, but probably to a lesser degree. This type of discussion usually comes up in the context of internship positions, where federally an unpaid internship must not displace employees and must provide no value to the employer.
DoctorNick 7y ago
I'm not saying that the situation is necessarily bad, or that the people who willingly do this for free are suckers. I can't speak for them, and I don't know the conditions that the moderators labor under. All I'm saying that the situation is still exploitation, no matter how you cut it. More and more businesses derive their main value from unpaid contributors, and it's something that should give us all pause.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

I run a forum and there's no shortage of people who would happily volunteer for a mod role. You have it wrong though: they get plenty of compensation through reputation, clout, and a feeling of power over their peers and being heard and helping out in a community that they love (or some combo of these). That's why they do it. Why is that not a fair trade without money exchanging hands? Growing up, I used to mow an aging neighbor's lawn because he was basically couch-ridden. It made me feel good to help someone else out. Was I being exploited and should I have demanded payment, or was that just a fair trade that I volunteered for and could quit at any time? Or look no further than HN. Participating on this forum writing content and enriching YC's coffers is "labor". And our compensation is procrastination and venting and feeling some satisfaction for scrawling our opinions online. If we didn't like that deal, we wouldn't be here.

DoctorNick 7y ago
The thing is, the service and main value that Stack Exchange provides is literally a moderated forum for people to ask and answer questions. Without that moderation, the service would be much less valuable, because it would be full of spam and worthless questions and answers, and less people would use it. This is what drives their revenue and their valuation. This isn't the case with HN, where the main contribution of the forums to their business is mainly brand recognition.
- SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
  And where HN has paid, full-time mods. dang and sctb. Even just for the brand recognition!
ahbyb 7y ago
>I run a forum and there's no shortage of people who would happily volunteer for a mod role. There's no shortage of people who want to be rulers of a community. Of those, it is always hard to find the ones who are actually fit for that purpose.
Johnny555 7y ago
have it wrong though: they get plenty of compensation through reputation, clout, and a feeling of power over their peers That sounds a lot like the "social influencer" pitches to get free stuff in return for "exposure".

mantap 7y ago

Should we require the elderly to pay their adult children minimum wage for looking after them? Because that is far more like work than being a moderator on a website.

undecisive 7y ago
If the elderly person requires the child to wear a tee-shirt with and advert on, which the elderly person earns money off, and the elderly person is getting rich off asking the child to look after them for "good will" then... yeah, they probably should be paid. It's not charity, it's not family, it's exploitation.