5 ms·
Here is an example: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-wildfire/as-wildfire-rages-in-los-angeles-city-tells-wealthy-to-warn-staff-of-dangers-idUSKBN1
by ars 7y ago
Here is an example: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-wildfire/as-wildfire-rages-in-los-angeles-city-tells-wealthy-to-warn-staff-of-dangers-idUSKBN1X813H https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-wildfire/as-wi...
A branch broke and landed on a power line, sparking a fire.
I'm curious what PG&E could do different, it sounds like the tree wasn't even very close to the power line, but wind pushed it.
Turning off power like this during wind-storms might be the permanent new normal.
- r00fus 7y agoUnderground the power distribution like in France. It’s expensive but probably less costly in the long run.
- m463 7y agoFrance does everything right (but it also does everything wrong.)
- ars 7y agoWouldn't that cost something like $1 trillion to do for the entire state? Math: 155147 miles * $750/foot And an article https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2019/10/11/cost-to-bury-california-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2019/10/11/... confirming it's pretty much out of reach. $15,000 per household estimate (and 1,000 years!!).
- sjg007 7y agoWell then everyone has local solar with a powerwall for when PG&E shuts down. Maybe that's cheaper? Honestly I think PG&E could bury the lines cheaper than $750 a foot.
- SllX 7y agoMaybe, but I think CEQA will pretty much guarantee that it will end up being a bit more expensive than even that.
- dmlittle 7y agoYou wouldn't necessarily have to do the entire state but rather start doing this in high-risk places first.
- misterprime 7y agoGood point. Is it also true that high risk places (forest/rural) are probably cheaper and easier to install underground than low risk places (urban)?
- dredmorbius 7y agoA lot of long-distance, high-voltage transmission crosses what's effectively wilderness. You've got issues of unstable slopes, earthquake faults, flooding, and ground-current losses (a big problem with undergrounded power). And that's before you look at getting crews in place. Then there's the question of monitoring, servicing, and repair after undergrounding. It's definitely an option. But not a cheap or universally applicable one.
- el_benhameen 7y agoNot sure about that. The high risk places are also often in remote, rugged terrain. What you save by not having to disrupt other infrastructure you might end up spending just to get people and equipment to where they need to be. Interesting perspective here: https://www.wsj.com/graphics/california-wildfire-pge-drought/?mod=article_inline&mod=hp_lead_pos5 https://www.wsj.com/graphics/california-wildfire-pge-drought...
- heisenbit 7y agoMaybe ultra sparse settlements on a scale as today are unaffordable in the long run? It not just power but also the roads and communication links. Accounting for infrastructure maintenance is not done properly.
- Nasrudith 7y agoWell the obvious thing to do is to bury the ones in wind problem/fire risk areas
- rasz 7y ago> $750/foot 2-3 times more than per square foot price of building a luxury house in California, that number totally checks out!
- bluGill 7y agoUnderground power distribution doesn't last as long as above ground. So not only is it more expensive to install, you have to reinstall it more often, plus spend more money on repairs more often. Repairs take longer as well because you have to dig up the lines to do it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- rrss 7y agoThe vast majority of power lines in France are overhead. RTE overhead lines: 100000 km RTE underground lines: 5400 km https://www.rte-france.com/fr/document/statistiques-reseaux-2016 https://www.rte-france.com/fr/document/statistiques-reseaux-... If you are intending to distinguish between distribution and transmission, the lines in question in California are transmission lines, not distribution lines.
- Roark66 7y agoNot needed really. We have last mile underground, but major distribution lines are over air. However all plants higher than few inches are cut down under the lines the width of the cut depending on how high the cables are. I can imagine it wouldn't work that well in the mountains. Here it is just a matter of regularily mowing the whole thing (few times per year).
- weyland108 7y agoHow about planned deforestation in areas of risk?
- newguy1234 7y agoThe problem is people often build homes far deep into these forests so actually deforesting the area would actually result in a massive amount of trees being cut down. Look at paradise, CA as an example.
- ghaff 7y agoAnd even with the current state of affairs, you can certainly find complaints already about PG&E "clearcutting" around their power lines.
- weyland108 7y agoThat seems like a different problem though I can’t imagine there are so many people in California living in remote forests. I think the idea of cutting trees is a big no no regardless of whether it’s for net positive for environment or people.
- ChrisCinelli 7y agoPG&E chose not to put lines under ground because they will likely break in case of an earthquake.
- dredmorbius 7y agoEarthquake-induced ground movements tend to be in limited areas immediately adjacent to faults, unless the effects are cause by induced land movements (e.g., landslides) elsewhere. An above-ground fault-crossing, with slace sufficient for maximum predicted ground movements (generally on the order of 5m or less) should generally address that.
- marcyb5st 7y agoThat sounds like and excuse. I'm Italian and back at home we also have heartquakes and wildfires problems. And yet a lot of our distribution lines are underground (apart from the high and ultra high voltage ones).
- djrogers 7y agoIt's the high and ultra-high voltage lines taht are the problem here. A lot of in-town power lines are buried in California, but those aren't the lines that are under scrutiny here.
- yardstick 7y agoAssuming that’s the case, can anything be done to GVR above ground cables to make them less prone to arching / creating fires?
- code_duck 7y agoDon't above ground lines break in the event of an earthquake?
- thrower123 7y agoIt's pretty simple, you have to maintain the right-of-ways along your transmission lines. This is really basic stuff, it's astounding that it could be this mismanaged.