6 ms·

Given that we lost cell coverage as well as power. Really regretting the Tesla after 3 days without power.

by linusnext 7y ago

newguy1234 7y ago
Agree. I think Tesla car is a bad idea, especially if you don't have solar panels on your roof or a generator.
- ghaff 7y ago
  In all fairness, multi-day power outages are a really rare event in a lot of places. And many households that own an EV also own an ICE vehicle. Also if power is out, you're not going to be able to fuel up either in the affected area. But, yes, with extended power outages the general shift towards cell phones, EVs, etc. can make the consequences of not having electricity worse. Presumably at some point there will be more single-home panels and batteries that allow for extended disconnection from the grid but we're mostly not there today.
  - delfinom 7y ago
    >In all fairness, multi-day power outages are a really rare event in a lot of places. And many households that own an EV also own an ICE vehicle. Also if power is out, you're not going to be able to fuel up either in the affected area. Hah. I thought about this. In NY, we lost power for a month after hurricane sandy because the public utility completely imploded due the years of corruption finally reaching criticality when the hurricane came through. It was so bad they privatized the power grid. Anyone with a EV would have been absolutely fucked in the meantime. We even had gasoline rationing because :surprise: many gas stations had no power to run the pumps. (Gas stations now mandated by law to have generators). Present, one is better off having an ICE vehicle instead of an EV if one lives anywhere with bad weather events and not living in a city where you can just walk everywhere.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Fair enough. And a lot of people in New England were without power for weeks after an ice storm about 10 years ago. Fortunately I was only out for a few days. As you suggest even gas can be a problem but it would likely be less of a problem than an EV.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      If gas stations were without power and being rationed, sounds like ICE vehicle owners were pretty fucked too. It's a hell of a lot easier to produce electricity locally from alternative sources than it is to produce gasoline. And if you do have gasoline, you can use it to produce electricity.
      - delfinom 7y ago
        >If gas stations were without power and being rationed, sounds like ICE vehicle owners were pretty fucked too. Yes, but the problem has been very easily corrected for little cost (law mandating generators which don't take much to run pumps, not to mention they can run off the gasoline in the station). The problem is, gasoline stations only exist by and large because of existing ICE demand. If the switch to EVs happened, gasoline stations would disappear fast given they operate on tight margins. The next major storm after that critical mass switchover and things will be ulgy.
johndubchak 7y ago
I think this point needs to be highlighted here: No power = no cell coverage Landlines are a thing of the past and for the most part that means that people lack the ability to call for help beyond your basic 911 service. So we’ve effectively tied two pieces of critical infrastructure together and made one dependent upon the other. That needs to be addressed and resolved.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > So we’ve effectively tied two pieces of critical infrastructure together and made one dependent upon the other. Worse: POTS and ISDN landlines are getting shut down left and right (at least in Germany, probably also in the US) as there are simply no linecard manufacturers remaining. Everything is switched to CPE-terminated VoIP crap (ever tried sending a fax with a fax machine linked on a consumer VoIP circuit?). So even if you HAVE a landline, its usability for 911 depends on the DSLAM having backup power (which many only have for 24-48h).
- rrss 7y ago
  It is pretty common for cell towers to have backup power. Not all of them do, but many.
  - mikestew 7y ago
    I'm assuming backup power is a diesel generator, though, right? My experience with long-term WA outages is that the diesel runs out in a few days, and no one comes to refill it. Amateur radio license: if my wife can pass the test, anyone on HN ought to be able to.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      You'll want to have a refueling SLA on that generator. The risk profile as of a month or so ago now includes short-notice extended multiple-day intentional power-outs from the utility service itself.
- PeterisP 7y ago
mikekchar 7y ago
A little late now, but can you get a device to run your house power off the car battery? At least in Japan you can buy one for the Leaf for about $5K. In the power failures following the big typhoon I have heard reports of it coming in quite handy. Of course, you don't drive the car unless it's to a place where you know you can recharge it, but 60 KWh of power will keep your basic fridge/lights/cooking facilities up for quite a long time if you are careful.
- pjc50 7y ago
  I think his argument is that the car is now unusable and he can't recharge it at home and most of the public stations are down.
mensetmanusman 7y ago
Is your food spoiling? Can’t imagine being without power for 3 days (midwestern).
- linusnext 7y ago
  Yes. Fun day for the thrash collectors.
dillonmckay 7y ago
I have thought about this frequently. Would it make sense to have 2 small inverter generators you could link together to charge the Tesla? How long and how much gas would that take?
- mikestew 7y ago
  I'm spitballin' here, but a couple of the standard Hondas (EU2000s?) will give you, say, 3000W. The onboard charger on our Leaf is 3300W (first-gen). It takes seven hours from empty to full. I'll leave the extrapolation to a Tesla as an exercise for the reader. Oh, wait a minute, I don't recall that a Honda will have a 240V plug into which you'll plug the Level 2 charger. So you're stuck with Level 1, and then you might as well just shut down that second generator. So, it would take however long it takes to charge a Tesla using a 120V outlet. Unless I'm wrong about the 240V plug part.
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    So, not so quick Google search, found this Honda kit... https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EGD-HONDA7000KIT-Portable-Generator/p62440.html https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EGD-HONDA7000... Two 5.5k inverter generators w/ a parallel cable. So, 11kw with a 50amp 240V socket for about $5k. So, about 2 hours for the Leaf, or no? Seems a Tesla would give you about 30 miles for one hour of charge? I don’t know.
newnewpdro 7y ago
Time to go all-in on Powerwalls and Solar, buying just the EV is a half-measure.
oh_hello 7y ago
There are products and concepts to allow using your EV battery as a power source for your home. Imagine treating your Tesla as a Powerwall during an outage. This would really turn the EV into an asset in such situations. Obviously you wouldn't be able to actually drive your car while using it this way.

Given that we lost cell coverage as well as power. Really regretting the Tesla after 3 days without power.

newguy1234 7y ago

Agree. I think Tesla car is a bad idea, especially if you don't have solar panels on your roof or a generator.

ghaff 7y ago
In all fairness, multi-day power outages are a really rare event in a lot of places. And many households that own an EV also own an ICE vehicle. Also if power is out, you're not going to be able to fuel up either in the affected area. But, yes, with extended power outages the general shift towards cell phones, EVs, etc. can make the consequences of not having electricity worse. Presumably at some point there will be more single-home panels and batteries that allow for extended disconnection from the grid but we're mostly not there today.
- delfinom 7y ago
  >In all fairness, multi-day power outages are a really rare event in a lot of places. And many households that own an EV also own an ICE vehicle. Also if power is out, you're not going to be able to fuel up either in the affected area. Hah. I thought about this. In NY, we lost power for a month after hurricane sandy because the public utility completely imploded due the years of corruption finally reaching criticality when the hurricane came through. It was so bad they privatized the power grid. Anyone with a EV would have been absolutely fucked in the meantime. We even had gasoline rationing because :surprise: many gas stations had no power to run the pumps. (Gas stations now mandated by law to have generators). Present, one is better off having an ICE vehicle instead of an EV if one lives anywhere with bad weather events and not living in a city where you can just walk everywhere.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Fair enough. And a lot of people in New England were without power for weeks after an ice storm about 10 years ago. Fortunately I was only out for a few days. As you suggest even gas can be a problem but it would likely be less of a problem than an EV.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    If gas stations were without power and being rationed, sounds like ICE vehicle owners were pretty fucked too. It's a hell of a lot easier to produce electricity locally from alternative sources than it is to produce gasoline. And if you do have gasoline, you can use it to produce electricity.
    - delfinom 7y ago
      >If gas stations were without power and being rationed, sounds like ICE vehicle owners were pretty fucked too. Yes, but the problem has been very easily corrected for little cost (law mandating generators which don't take much to run pumps, not to mention they can run off the gasoline in the station). The problem is, gasoline stations only exist by and large because of existing ICE demand. If the switch to EVs happened, gasoline stations would disappear fast given they operate on tight margins. The next major storm after that critical mass switchover and things will be ulgy.

johndubchak 7y ago

I think this point needs to be highlighted here: No power = no cell coverage Landlines are a thing of the past and for the most part that means that people lack the ability to call for help beyond your basic 911 service. So we’ve effectively tied two pieces of critical infrastructure together and made one dependent upon the other. That needs to be addressed and resolved.

mschuster91 7y ago
> So we’ve effectively tied two pieces of critical infrastructure together and made one dependent upon the other. Worse: POTS and ISDN landlines are getting shut down left and right (at least in Germany, probably also in the US) as there are simply no linecard manufacturers remaining. Everything is switched to CPE-terminated VoIP crap (ever tried sending a fax with a fax machine linked on a consumer VoIP circuit?). So even if you HAVE a landline, its usability for 911 depends on the DSLAM having backup power (which many only have for 24-48h).
rrss 7y ago
It is pretty common for cell towers to have backup power. Not all of them do, but many.
- mikestew 7y ago
  I'm assuming backup power is a diesel generator, though, right? My experience with long-term WA outages is that the diesel runs out in a few days, and no one comes to refill it. Amateur radio license: if my wife can pass the test, anyone on HN ought to be able to.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    You'll want to have a refueling SLA on that generator. The risk profile as of a month or so ago now includes short-notice extended multiple-day intentional power-outs from the utility service itself.
PeterisP 7y ago

mikekchar 7y ago

A little late now, but can you get a device to run your house power off the car battery? At least in Japan you can buy one for the Leaf for about $5K. In the power failures following the big typhoon I have heard reports of it coming in quite handy. Of course, you don't drive the car unless it's to a place where you know you can recharge it, but 60 KWh of power will keep your basic fridge/lights/cooking facilities up for quite a long time if you are careful.

pjc50 7y ago
I think his argument is that the car is now unusable and he can't recharge it at home and most of the public stations are down.

mensetmanusman 7y ago

Is your food spoiling? Can’t imagine being without power for 3 days (midwestern).

linusnext 7y ago
Yes. Fun day for the thrash collectors.

dillonmckay 7y ago

I have thought about this frequently. Would it make sense to have 2 small inverter generators you could link together to charge the Tesla? How long and how much gas would that take?

mikestew 7y ago
I'm spitballin' here, but a couple of the standard Hondas (EU2000s?) will give you, say, 3000W. The onboard charger on our Leaf is 3300W (first-gen). It takes seven hours from empty to full. I'll leave the extrapolation to a Tesla as an exercise for the reader. Oh, wait a minute, I don't recall that a Honda will have a 240V plug into which you'll plug the Level 2 charger. So you're stuck with Level 1, and then you might as well just shut down that second generator. So, it would take however long it takes to charge a Tesla using a 120V outlet. Unless I'm wrong about the 240V plug part.
- dillonmckay 7y ago
  So, not so quick Google search, found this Honda kit... https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EGD-HONDA7000KIT-Portable-Generator/p62440.html https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EGD-HONDA7000... Two 5.5k inverter generators w/ a parallel cable. So, 11kw with a 50amp 240V socket for about $5k. So, about 2 hours for the Leaf, or no? Seems a Tesla would give you about 30 miles for one hour of charge? I don’t know.

newnewpdro 7y ago

Time to go all-in on Powerwalls and Solar, buying just the EV is a half-measure.

oh_hello 7y ago

There are products and concepts to allow using your EV battery as a power source for your home. Imagine treating your Tesla as a Powerwall during an outage. This would really turn the EV into an asset in such situations. Obviously you wouldn't be able to actually drive your car while using it this way.