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I'm very sensitive to this. The notion of "buying" a piece of content on Amazon is borderline offensive to me. You don't own anything! I own a DVD that I can c

by kauffj 7y ago

I'm very sensitive to this. The notion of "buying" a piece of content on Amazon is borderline offensive to me. You don't own anything! I own a DVD that I can continue to play as long as I own a DVD player. What I'm "buying" from Amazon is a promise that Amazon will continue to give this to me and only me, so long as they are around and available. I can't resell it and I have nothing the moment they cease to exist. That's not ownership. (Setting aside the somewhat absurd notion of "renting" vs. "buying", when both do the same thing. Renting just requires you to throw away the bits after...) If you agree with the above, you might like LBRY (https://lbry.com https://lbry.com or https://lbry.tech https://lbry.tech), which in addition to letting you stream or download no-DRM files, permanently records your access rights in a blockchain.

michaelbuckbee 7y ago
It's actually slightly worse than that as licensing deals can collapse on the backend that would remove an item that you had paid for from your library. While it seems unlikely that Amazon would do this, consider that Microsoft has on several occassions with their various attempted music services.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  Amazon has already done this and pulled a book from people's kindles that they had purchased because Amazon didn't have a license to sell it
- tomc1985 7y ago
  This is exactly what's happening with Netflix. I've heard stories of this happening on Steam, where games receive essentially post-humous updates to remove licensed content for which the license expired (I believe Rockstar did this to Steam users with its GTA3-era titles). One could also argue that shutting off multiplayer servers is like this, when there is no LAN/TCPIP option available.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    If you think paying for Netflix means you’re paying for access to anything Netflix has a license for at a certain point time for all of eternity, you’ve obviously got an erroneous model of the business in mind. Netflix is subject to licensing agreements, just like cable and broadcast is.
    - matheusmoreira 7y ago
      Licensing agreements are not the consumer's problem. From their point of view, the service just gets worse and worse because it no longer provides the content they actually want to watch.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        They will get used to it, just like they got used to tv channels becoming unavailable or commercials on cable. Or they will find a better way to spend their time and money. Either by researching before, or by finding something missing, the buyer is going to learn what it is they are buying.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >you’ve obviously got an erroneous model of the business in mind. If the consumer can have an "erroneous model of the business in mind" then the business is doing it wrongly...
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        4th item from Netflix FAQ on their website in plain English: >Netflix content will vary by region, and may change over time.
        coldtea 7y ago
        A, the "plans were on display" defense... “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
- KozmoNau7 7y ago
  This is precisely why I ditched Spotify and went back to a local music collection. I got sick and tired of albums disappearing and reappearing at random, ruining my playlists. Some of my favorite albums were gone for months at a time, with no warning. Not to mention the terrible state of Spotify's catalogue and curation. Wrong information, spelling errors, multiple artists with identical names being confused, you name it. With my local collection, I can fix the tags and keep track of the correct information.
- scandinavegan 7y ago
  Apple did this in 2018 when two movies bought on iTunes were removed from a user. After contacting support the user was offered two vouchers for rental movies, which is obviously worth less. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/13/apple-is-deleting-bought-films-from-itunes-accounts-and-dont-expect-a-refund/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/13/apple-is-... 2: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/17/apple-responds-to-disappearing-itunes-movie-purchases-issue/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/17/apple-res...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dcolkitt 7y ago
> You don't own anything! This is true. But the counterpoint is the things you own end up owning you. There's a reason Marie Kondo and the philosophy of minimalism is so popular in this era. I don't want to have to worry about a thousand DVDs. I don't want to store them. I don't want to keep track of them. I don't want another box to pack up and deal with when moving. I could rip them onto a hard disk. But now I'm managing a virtual inventory instead of a physical inventory. That's an improvement, but it's still a pain in the ass. Yes Amazon could discontinue its library. No, I'm not worried about it. The chances of a trillion dollar company exiting one of its primary business lines is definitely lower than the chances of me misplacing my DVDs. There's a reason that services have replaced products to such an extent. Both in consumer and enterprise. And that's because throwing a little bit of extra money at a third party to simplify our already overly messy and disorganized lives is worth the tradeoff. That being said, I'm sympathetic to Stallman-esque arguments against giving up control. And from an ecosystem level standpoint that's probably bad. But from a purely self-interested standpoint, Amazon is definitely the rational choice. The reality is that services are here to stay, and if we're worried about Stallman-type concerns than we need to build better, freer (as in speech) services.
- prawn 7y ago
  Worse than DVDs are books shelved en masse. I've spent more on storage for various things in my life than I ever have for renting content or products. Ends up dominating your house.
  - KozmoNau7 7y ago
    The key is to regularly clean out the shelves. Those books you're never going to re-read, those movies you haven't watched in a decade? Just give them away, to friends/family or thrift stores. Keep your collection at manageable size, only keep the ones that actually mean something to you. I even do that with my digital music collection, just to make it easier to keep an overview.
    - UserIsUnused 7y ago
      This. You can give away or re-sell what you own. You can't do that on digital content.
throw1234651234 7y ago
So copy the file to a DVD. The idea here is that you are cutting out the physical costs - production, delivery, loss to spoilage, etc. Fact of the matter is, you probably don't even want the thing when you are done with it - e.g. shitty 20th edition book that your professor wrote and made you use in their class to make a profit.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 7y ago
If Amazon ever stops serving you the music or movies you’ve purchased, I am quite certain you could get your money back in court. You paid for, and they agreed to serve that content to you in perpetuity. Monthly subscriptions on the other hand... those could shut down at any time.

by kauffj 7y ago

michaelbuckbee 7y ago

It's actually slightly worse than that as licensing deals can collapse on the backend that would remove an item that you had paid for from your library. While it seems unlikely that Amazon would do this, consider that Microsoft has on several occassions with their various attempted music services.

jdnenej 7y ago
Amazon has already done this and pulled a book from people's kindles that they had purchased because Amazon didn't have a license to sell it
tomc1985 7y ago
This is exactly what's happening with Netflix. I've heard stories of this happening on Steam, where games receive essentially post-humous updates to remove licensed content for which the license expired (I believe Rockstar did this to Steam users with its GTA3-era titles). One could also argue that shutting off multiplayer servers is like this, when there is no LAN/TCPIP option available.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  If you think paying for Netflix means you’re paying for access to anything Netflix has a license for at a certain point time for all of eternity, you’ve obviously got an erroneous model of the business in mind. Netflix is subject to licensing agreements, just like cable and broadcast is.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    Licensing agreements are not the consumer's problem. From their point of view, the service just gets worse and worse because it no longer provides the content they actually want to watch.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      They will get used to it, just like they got used to tv channels becoming unavailable or commercials on cable. Or they will find a better way to spend their time and money. Either by researching before, or by finding something missing, the buyer is going to learn what it is they are buying.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >you’ve obviously got an erroneous model of the business in mind. If the consumer can have an "erroneous model of the business in mind" then the business is doing it wrongly...
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      4th item from Netflix FAQ on their website in plain English: >Netflix content will vary by region, and may change over time.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        A, the "plans were on display" defense... “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
KozmoNau7 7y ago
This is precisely why I ditched Spotify and went back to a local music collection. I got sick and tired of albums disappearing and reappearing at random, ruining my playlists. Some of my favorite albums were gone for months at a time, with no warning. Not to mention the terrible state of Spotify's catalogue and curation. Wrong information, spelling errors, multiple artists with identical names being confused, you name it. With my local collection, I can fix the tags and keep track of the correct information.
scandinavegan 7y ago
Apple did this in 2018 when two movies bought on iTunes were removed from a user. After contacting support the user was offered two vouchers for rental movies, which is obviously worth less. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/13/apple-is-deleting-bought-films-from-itunes-accounts-and-dont-expect-a-refund/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/13/apple-is-... 2: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/17/apple-responds-to-disappearing-itunes-movie-purchases-issue/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/09/17/apple-res...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dcolkitt 7y ago

> You don't own anything! This is true. But the counterpoint is the things you own end up owning you. There's a reason Marie Kondo and the philosophy of minimalism is so popular in this era. I don't want to have to worry about a thousand DVDs. I don't want to store them. I don't want to keep track of them. I don't want another box to pack up and deal with when moving. I could rip them onto a hard disk. But now I'm managing a virtual inventory instead of a physical inventory. That's an improvement, but it's still a pain in the ass. Yes Amazon could discontinue its library. No, I'm not worried about it. The chances of a trillion dollar company exiting one of its primary business lines is definitely lower than the chances of me misplacing my DVDs. There's a reason that services have replaced products to such an extent. Both in consumer and enterprise. And that's because throwing a little bit of extra money at a third party to simplify our already overly messy and disorganized lives is worth the tradeoff. That being said, I'm sympathetic to Stallman-esque arguments against giving up control. And from an ecosystem level standpoint that's probably bad. But from a purely self-interested standpoint, Amazon is definitely the rational choice. The reality is that services are here to stay, and if we're worried about Stallman-type concerns than we need to build better, freer (as in speech) services.

prawn 7y ago
Worse than DVDs are books shelved en masse. I've spent more on storage for various things in my life than I ever have for renting content or products. Ends up dominating your house.
- KozmoNau7 7y ago
  The key is to regularly clean out the shelves. Those books you're never going to re-read, those movies you haven't watched in a decade? Just give them away, to friends/family or thrift stores. Keep your collection at manageable size, only keep the ones that actually mean something to you. I even do that with my digital music collection, just to make it easier to keep an overview.
  - UserIsUnused 7y ago
    This. You can give away or re-sell what you own. You can't do that on digital content.

throw1234651234 7y ago

So copy the file to a DVD. The idea here is that you are cutting out the physical costs - production, delivery, loss to spoilage, etc. Fact of the matter is, you probably don't even want the thing when you are done with it - e.g. shitty 20th edition book that your professor wrote and made you use in their class to make a profit.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

erikpukinskis 7y ago

If Amazon ever stops serving you the music or movies you’ve purchased, I am quite certain you could get your money back in court. You paid for, and they agreed to serve that content to you in perpetuity. Monthly subscriptions on the other hand... those could shut down at any time.