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This is such nonsense it's just incredible that people with such seemingly strong conversational strengths in music could say something so perversely false. If

This is such nonsense it's just incredible that people with such seemingly strong conversational strengths in music could say something so perversely false. If you are looking at the kind of music that makes it onto Top 40 radio stations, then this is undoubtedly true. But that's not what is meant when you say > For the past 30 years music has definitely become more "bland" When you suggest that, you appear naive and ignorant. Because it means you don't know about Tyshawn Sorey [0], Mary Halvorson [1], Anthony Braxton [2], John Zorn [3], etc. Pop music, a tiny sliver of all the important music being composed and performed today, has gotten progressively shittier. Fine, I'll grant you that. But who cares? That's not what we're talking about when examining the vast complexities being propagated and explored by today's musical masters. We are in a golden age of harmonic and compositional innovation. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqw-HE9szrs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqw-HE9szrs [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfK0ZfbLRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfK0ZfbLRA (featuring Nels Cline, who is actually much more important for his participation in the NYC avant-garde than for his involvement with Wilco) [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJfU0AJK2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJfU0AJK2c [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYis3q0vv7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYis3q0vv7g

52-6F-62 7y ago
Thanks for mentioning Wilco, because I wouldn't just stop at harmonic and compositional innovation. Songwriters and big-tent performers are as good as they ever were as well. I had the pleasure of seeing them Oct 8 here in Toronto and it was fantastic. I'd also mention Willie Nelson/Avett Brothers/Matt Mays and Tame Impala all this summer. I'd dreamed of making it down to Red Rock, CO to see Jason Isbell last month, but it didn't materialize. There's no shortage of worthy and soulful music. And it's more accessible than ever. Maybe there's just more music in general, and that is easily mistaken as a consensus rather than just all-around growth.
- AndrewUnmuted 7y ago
  I was pointing out that Wilco is a poor example of what I am talking about.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    I'm sorry, where did you say that Wilco was a poor example of anything? It sounds like you didn't read my comment in full.
Miner49er 7y ago
I wouldn't say pop music has gotten worse. Maybe popular music, but not pop as a genre. There's a lot of great pop out there.
fermenflo 7y ago
I think it's pretty self explanatory that when someone says "music has gotten more bland over the years", that they're referencing pop music. Obviously people understand that there are bands/individuals on the peripherals of society's musical radar that are continuing to make "un-bland" music. Anyway, please continue to pretentiously post some of those individuals and shame others for being "ignorant" of them. I mean don't get me wrong -I'm about as snobby as they come when we're talking about music. But how can you say seriously something like "It means you're ignorant because you don't know about X, Y, Z..." without understanding how much of a pretentious ass you sound like?
- AndrewUnmuted 7y ago
  If you were as "snobby as they come" when it comes to music, then you would know the reason I cited the specific examples I did. The first two were particular contributors to the expansion of our notions of harmony, and the latter two were particular contributors to the expansion of our notions of composition. When you are in the study of music, these are the names of the people you reference when you discuss things like this. These are not opinions, but facts. Perhaps you should have a better understanding of what harmony and composition are, before taking someone who does to task.
  - fermenflo 7y ago
    Oh man you're a walking, talking caricature aren't you haha? When did I ever say I didn't know who some of those people were? And if I didn't... would that invalidate my whole point? Don't kid yourself- concepts like harmony and composition are subjective. Nothing about "who's progressing what" in any branch of music is objective when the whole system itself isn't. I like how you attack my understanding of concepts like harmony/composition when you don't even know my background lol. And to get back to my main point, it wasn't that you were wrong for citing those individuals, it's just that you sounded like a jerk. "sounding"* rather.
mellowdream 7y ago
I don't even think it's necessary to point out specific examples, though you're welcome to do so. All it really takes is showing the kind of numbers music databases like discogs (for both generalist and specialist consumers alike) are posting - millions of records added PER YEAR [1]. This alone shows "a million contemporary popular music tracks" is not representative of modern music's "state" whatsoever. [1] https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-year-end-report-2018/ https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-year-end-report-2018/
autoexec 7y ago
> Pop music, a tiny sliver of all the important music being composed and performed today, has gotten progressively shittier. Fine, I'll grant you that. But who cares? I guess if by "pop music" you mean everything that gets played on the radio, gets aggressively promoted by the recording industry, and has the widest audience I'd argue that many people should care. It's great that there are awesome musicians who are putting out amazing music in their basements or at local shows but if 99.99% of the population will never hear it does it matter that what they will hear is watered down crap? I'd argue that it does. Even your own examples show only a few thousand views. Compare that to what a currently popular song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJDTxahav0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJDTxahav0) has seen in views over just one week. The song isn't even bad, but I can see how it could be described as "simple".
malvosenior 7y ago
There has always been underground music and there always will be (thankfully). I'm talking about mainstream music, which most definitely has become simplified in the past 30 years.

52-6F-62 7y ago

Thanks for mentioning Wilco, because I wouldn't just stop at harmonic and compositional innovation. Songwriters and big-tent performers are as good as they ever were as well. I had the pleasure of seeing them Oct 8 here in Toronto and it was fantastic. I'd also mention Willie Nelson/Avett Brothers/Matt Mays and Tame Impala all this summer. I'd dreamed of making it down to Red Rock, CO to see Jason Isbell last month, but it didn't materialize. There's no shortage of worthy and soulful music. And it's more accessible than ever. Maybe there's just more music in general, and that is easily mistaken as a consensus rather than just all-around growth.

AndrewUnmuted 7y ago
I was pointing out that Wilco is a poor example of what I am talking about.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  I'm sorry, where did you say that Wilco was a poor example of anything? It sounds like you didn't read my comment in full.

Miner49er 7y ago

I wouldn't say pop music has gotten worse. Maybe popular music, but not pop as a genre. There's a lot of great pop out there.

fermenflo 7y ago

I think it's pretty self explanatory that when someone says "music has gotten more bland over the years", that they're referencing pop music. Obviously people understand that there are bands/individuals on the peripherals of society's musical radar that are continuing to make "un-bland" music. Anyway, please continue to pretentiously post some of those individuals and shame others for being "ignorant" of them. I mean don't get me wrong -I'm about as snobby as they come when we're talking about music. But how can you say seriously something like "It means you're ignorant because you don't know about X, Y, Z..." without understanding how much of a pretentious ass you sound like?

AndrewUnmuted 7y ago
If you were as "snobby as they come" when it comes to music, then you would know the reason I cited the specific examples I did. The first two were particular contributors to the expansion of our notions of harmony, and the latter two were particular contributors to the expansion of our notions of composition. When you are in the study of music, these are the names of the people you reference when you discuss things like this. These are not opinions, but facts. Perhaps you should have a better understanding of what harmony and composition are, before taking someone who does to task.
- fermenflo 7y ago
  Oh man you're a walking, talking caricature aren't you haha? When did I ever say I didn't know who some of those people were? And if I didn't... would that invalidate my whole point? Don't kid yourself- concepts like harmony and composition are subjective. Nothing about "who's progressing what" in any branch of music is objective when the whole system itself isn't. I like how you attack my understanding of concepts like harmony/composition when you don't even know my background lol. And to get back to my main point, it wasn't that you were wrong for citing those individuals, it's just that you sounded like a jerk. "sounding"* rather.

mellowdream 7y ago

I don't even think it's necessary to point out specific examples, though you're welcome to do so. All it really takes is showing the kind of numbers music databases like discogs (for both generalist and specialist consumers alike) are posting - millions of records added PER YEAR [1]. This alone shows "a million contemporary popular music tracks" is not representative of modern music's "state" whatsoever. [1] https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-year-end-report-2018/ https://blog.discogs.com/en/discogs-year-end-report-2018/

autoexec 7y ago

> Pop music, a tiny sliver of all the important music being composed and performed today, has gotten progressively shittier. Fine, I'll grant you that. But who cares? I guess if by "pop music" you mean everything that gets played on the radio, gets aggressively promoted by the recording industry, and has the widest audience I'd argue that many people should care. It's great that there are awesome musicians who are putting out amazing music in their basements or at local shows but if 99.99% of the population will never hear it does it matter that what they will hear is watered down crap? I'd argue that it does. Even your own examples show only a few thousand views. Compare that to what a currently popular song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJDTxahav0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJDTxahav0) has seen in views over just one week. The song isn't even bad, but I can see how it could be described as "simple".

malvosenior 7y ago

There has always been underground music and there always will be (thankfully). I'm talking about mainstream music, which most definitely has become simplified in the past 30 years.