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I wonder how much of the image processing Apple could back port to iPhone 8/X, XS, XR if they wanted to? Those phones are extremely powerful still. And Apple ha

I wonder how much of the image processing Apple could back port to iPhone 8/X, XS, XR if they wanted to? Those phones are extremely powerful still. And Apple has touted the power of their neural engine ever since the 8/X.

itg 7y ago
Yeah, I was disappointed they did not bring night sight to older iPhones. Google has made night sight available to all models of Pixel phones.
- chooseaname 7y ago
  Take Deep Fusion. Even if that were to take a little longer, have it run over my photos at night while I'm plugged in.
  - sandofsky 7y ago
    But then when you go back to review old photos, they're going to look different than the first time you reviewed it. That's going to be confusing. Also, if you're going to share a photo, you're likely going to do it the same day you took it.
    - semerda 7y ago
      No it won’t. The framing will be identical. That’s how the DSLR world works. The viewfinder is used for framing & exposure check and then the rest is done behind the scenes.
      - munmaek 7y ago
        A photo has more elements than just framing. It would be disorienting and customer-hostile to have your photos randomly change overnight. About 60-75% of the time I take photos, I share them soon after or within a few hours. Having to wait to let them be processed overnight would be obnoxious. And it's not particularly helpful to compare people taking photos on their phone to the DSLR world. (Coming from someone with a nikon d200, d300 sitting on his shelf). Totally different use cases, totally different usage expectations.
      - sandofsky 7y ago
        Yes, Deep Fusion doesn't affect the composition, but it could bring out detail the photographer didn't intend to reveal.
spike021 7y ago
They won't though. How would they upsell customers if they provide them with the same features that newer phones have? I wish they would, but that doesn't fit Apple's typical MO.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  > fit Apple's typical MO Apple, or any business trying to make money?
- webwielder2 7y ago
  Supporting and improving previous generation devices fits Apple's MO better than any other company's.
  - MagnumOpus 7y ago
    Obviously it doesn’t. Apple refusing to support and improve previous gens due to commercial considerations is what we are talking about. Seems like the MO has changed?
- nolok 7y ago
  I was pleasantly surprised when Samsung backported their "night" mode to my S9+. I was even more pleasantly surprised when I saw how much of an improvement it made in low light conditions. If anything, it ensured my next phone would be a Samsung again (and it was, I went Note 10), so I think it's still a good upselling move to do so. On that note, how far they've come since the Note 4 terrible TERRIBLE result in low light, that phone was top notch for its time but in low light it took several seconds for a single shot, focus sucked, grainy as hell ... Seeing a 9/10th gen phone instantly take those shots, with almost no grain and a lot of back details properly lighted is very impressive to me. I understand how it works in theory, but there is still a "wow I can't believe my phone pulls that off" factor for me.
- ben174 7y ago
  I mean, you bought the phone with a particular version of software. They don't charge you for some significant upgrades and security updates - but it seems fair to me that the features which require huge R&D costs would require a new purchase.
simonh 7y ago
Sure, but I’m not sure how easy it is to back-port neural engine training data to a less sophisticated, previous generation neural engine. I know Google made their night model generally available, but I don’t think it depends on specific custom hardware.
sandofsky 7y ago
There are often performance factors people underestimate. For example Portrait Lighting can run on hardware without the neural engine, if you hack the exif to say it was shot on a newer device. However, this is just when editing. There's no way it would be capable of the realtime preview, and casual users rely on the preview to make the feature useful at all. Actually, it would confuse a ton of users. We added portrait-mode support for non-humans on the iPhone XR. The hardware doesn't provide realtime depth information, so we can only apply the effect after you've taken the photo. We frequently receive support requests telling us that the feature doesn't work. I can't speak to why Deep Fusion isn't coming to old devices, since it's an offline process. I mean, I could speculate that if it relies on multi-cam capture to capture multiple images, that's strenuous API that isn't supported on hardware earlier than the XS. The cynical perspective is that Apple caps features to the latest hardware to sell new hardware. I'd say it's just as likely that Apple looks at the new hardware coming down the pipeline and plans features that push the hardware to its limit.
- jtbayly 7y ago
  > that's strenuous API that isn't supported on hardware earlier than the XS. Great, then why doesn’t it work on my XS?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

itg 7y ago

Yeah, I was disappointed they did not bring night sight to older iPhones. Google has made night sight available to all models of Pixel phones.

chooseaname 7y ago
Take Deep Fusion. Even if that were to take a little longer, have it run over my photos at night while I'm plugged in.
- sandofsky 7y ago
  But then when you go back to review old photos, they're going to look different than the first time you reviewed it. That's going to be confusing. Also, if you're going to share a photo, you're likely going to do it the same day you took it.
  - semerda 7y ago
    No it won’t. The framing will be identical. That’s how the DSLR world works. The viewfinder is used for framing & exposure check and then the rest is done behind the scenes.
    - munmaek 7y ago
      A photo has more elements than just framing. It would be disorienting and customer-hostile to have your photos randomly change overnight. About 60-75% of the time I take photos, I share them soon after or within a few hours. Having to wait to let them be processed overnight would be obnoxious. And it's not particularly helpful to compare people taking photos on their phone to the DSLR world. (Coming from someone with a nikon d200, d300 sitting on his shelf). Totally different use cases, totally different usage expectations.
    - sandofsky 7y ago
      Yes, Deep Fusion doesn't affect the composition, but it could bring out detail the photographer didn't intend to reveal.

spike021 7y ago

They won't though. How would they upsell customers if they provide them with the same features that newer phones have? I wish they would, but that doesn't fit Apple's typical MO.

MuffinFlavored 7y ago
> fit Apple's typical MO Apple, or any business trying to make money?
webwielder2 7y ago
Supporting and improving previous generation devices fits Apple's MO better than any other company's.
- MagnumOpus 7y ago
  Obviously it doesn’t. Apple refusing to support and improve previous gens due to commercial considerations is what we are talking about. Seems like the MO has changed?
nolok 7y ago
I was pleasantly surprised when Samsung backported their "night" mode to my S9+. I was even more pleasantly surprised when I saw how much of an improvement it made in low light conditions. If anything, it ensured my next phone would be a Samsung again (and it was, I went Note 10), so I think it's still a good upselling move to do so. On that note, how far they've come since the Note 4 terrible TERRIBLE result in low light, that phone was top notch for its time but in low light it took several seconds for a single shot, focus sucked, grainy as hell ... Seeing a 9/10th gen phone instantly take those shots, with almost no grain and a lot of back details properly lighted is very impressive to me. I understand how it works in theory, but there is still a "wow I can't believe my phone pulls that off" factor for me.
ben174 7y ago
I mean, you bought the phone with a particular version of software. They don't charge you for some significant upgrades and security updates - but it seems fair to me that the features which require huge R&D costs would require a new purchase.

simonh 7y ago

Sure, but I’m not sure how easy it is to back-port neural engine training data to a less sophisticated, previous generation neural engine. I know Google made their night model generally available, but I don’t think it depends on specific custom hardware.

sandofsky 7y ago

There are often performance factors people underestimate. For example Portrait Lighting can run on hardware without the neural engine, if you hack the exif to say it was shot on a newer device. However, this is just when editing. There's no way it would be capable of the realtime preview, and casual users rely on the preview to make the feature useful at all. Actually, it would confuse a ton of users. We added portrait-mode support for non-humans on the iPhone XR. The hardware doesn't provide realtime depth information, so we can only apply the effect after you've taken the photo. We frequently receive support requests telling us that the feature doesn't work. I can't speak to why Deep Fusion isn't coming to old devices, since it's an offline process. I mean, I could speculate that if it relies on multi-cam capture to capture multiple images, that's strenuous API that isn't supported on hardware earlier than the XS. The cynical perspective is that Apple caps features to the latest hardware to sell new hardware. I'd say it's just as likely that Apple looks at the new hardware coming down the pipeline and plans features that push the hardware to its limit.

jtbayly 7y ago
> that's strenuous API that isn't supported on hardware earlier than the XS. Great, then why doesn’t it work on my XS?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]