3 ms·

Maybe instead of pointing out how foolish, we can positively encourage good behavior, and tell them "you can do it!", and be a true friend, encouraging them to

by lcall 7y ago

Maybe instead of pointing out how foolish, we can positively encourage good behavior, and tell them "you can do it!", and be a true friend, encouraging them to manage finances better. For example, we should all have some emergency savings, then build our savings, and sacrifice conveniences or fun as needed to get out of debt. We would do well to create a culture of not being victimized or manipulated so much by advertising, and helping one another in that. Resources include anything by Dave Ramsey (including possibly used books, DVDs, audio CDs on amazon: we bought some of these for ourselves, and to loan or give to children and others; no other affiliation), or free full BYU personal finance courses online at: https://personalfinance.byu.edu/ https://personalfinance.byu.edu/ (I have not personally reviewed but some relatives have taken the actual classes and recommended this link.) There are also some free in-person training programs in at least 2-3 cities, with a collaboration between my church and the NAACP, and related material online (not mine but very good), at https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng such as, specifially, https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/family-finances?lang=eng&_r=1 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi... . (Maybe I should add those notes/links to my web site, for more easily referring people... Edit: The above, combining freedom + chances to learn responsibility, is far better IMO than letting the federal government run more of our lives, badly, and without giving a choice what to do with those $. I have written more on that at http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net under Other then Politics or such. ) (Edit: fixed a couple of links.)

jjeaff 7y ago
I agree we should be teaching more financial literacy, but I think this, and most of these financial literacy courses, gloss over the realities of poverty. An emergency fund is very important, but most people in poverty live in the red perpetually. There is never extra cash to save up. Any extra money is swiftly gobbled up by debtors who wait indefinitely for any money to show. Which is actually one reason you will see some poor people make seemingly ridiculous purchases as soon as they get money. They know from experience that any extra cash on hand will get taken by creditors as soon as they detect it. So they spend it. At least, if you buy something of value, you can pawn it for cash later when you need it. It's a terrible cycle.
- lcall 7y ago
  I think there are ways out, that depend on desire and belief that it can be done. Knowing one's own worth (infinite, really) is key, I think. The links I mentioned link to other things that can help. Here is another: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/development-counseling-services?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/development-... ...off that main "provident living" page: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng And there is more at my web site. I have spent a great deal of time thinking about all these things, and writing. I have learned some things for myself. (edit: a correction: the "development counseling" appears to be for Church members. The "immigrant services" and many other things like those online materials, classes done with the NAACP are not limited to Church members: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/immigrant-services?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/immigrant-se... . Etc.)
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Interesting, as a member myself, I hadn't heard of the immigrant services program. And I agree, the poverty cycle is of course not inescapable. But boy is it a lot harder than I think those of us who have always been more fortunate think it is.
    - lcall 7y ago
      Just to confirm I am not making things from a standpoint of $ given to us: My grandparents were either both legally blind (one side, very poor and kids stressed out), or rather poor (especially compared to most americans today) farmers in Mexico with 13 children. The "privilege" I have enjoyed (other than skin/benefit of the doubt?--unsure since I probably don't fully understand that from everyone else's perspective: just acknowledging I don't know everything) is encouragement to work hard and that I could do it, during my whole upbringing. My dad was a school teacher (and part-time painter and newspaper deliverer) and my mom a full-time mom (stressful, but it sure helped us as kids to feel secure). Things were hard, but on we go, and I am grateful. Maybe rambling now.
bcrosby95 7y ago
If you make little enough and live in a major metro area its pretty easy to burn through any savings you have. I have several friends now in their 40s now that used to continually cycle the steps of: lost job -> spent savings -> debt -> got job -> payoff debt -> generate savings -> lost job -> ... At some point they just lost hope. I can't blame them for racking up debt if the system lets them continue. It sounds better to continually pay off debt and enjoy life instead of to continually pay off debt and not enjoy it.
- lcall 7y ago
  I am not selling anything (maybe some software someday, but that's a different topic). But I think about things like this a lot and have posted many thoughts, over time. I hope you don't mind but this is my best work in this area, so far, over some years. (Truly, we do not need to be alone, or give up. I have been thru many things that ... leave me grateful now. So I hope this can be useful to someone....) There are people who can help, with guidance, and in other ways. One list (many resources): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854601245.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854601245.html . Another (having the Church as help in life): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581807.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581807.html . Another: extended family. Another (general life lessons and resources found, including overcoming addictions, but much more): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854592298.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854592298.html . Another (pray): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854585359.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854585359.html . I have learned by long and much-repeated personal experience (the easy way and the hard way) that prayer makes a huge difference, if we are willing to do our part and be obedient to God when we know what we should be doing: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854580889.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854580889.html . And how I learned that: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html . More resources (better than the above stuff): https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng Wishing the best for everyone in tough circumstances (which seems to be all of us at one time or another)! (edits: minor fixes, add the providentliving.org url.)
  - sharkmerry 7y ago

by lcall 7y ago

jjeaff 7y ago

I agree we should be teaching more financial literacy, but I think this, and most of these financial literacy courses, gloss over the realities of poverty. An emergency fund is very important, but most people in poverty live in the red perpetually. There is never extra cash to save up. Any extra money is swiftly gobbled up by debtors who wait indefinitely for any money to show. Which is actually one reason you will see some poor people make seemingly ridiculous purchases as soon as they get money. They know from experience that any extra cash on hand will get taken by creditors as soon as they detect it. So they spend it. At least, if you buy something of value, you can pawn it for cash later when you need it. It's a terrible cycle.

lcall 7y ago
I think there are ways out, that depend on desire and belief that it can be done. Knowing one's own worth (infinite, really) is key, I think. The links I mentioned link to other things that can help. Here is another: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/development-counseling-services?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/development-... ...off that main "provident living" page: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng And there is more at my web site. I have spent a great deal of time thinking about all these things, and writing. I have learned some things for myself. (edit: a correction: the "development counseling" appears to be for Church members. The "immigrant services" and many other things like those online materials, classes done with the NAACP are not limited to Church members: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/immigrant-services?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/immigrant-se... . Etc.)
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Interesting, as a member myself, I hadn't heard of the immigrant services program. And I agree, the poverty cycle is of course not inescapable. But boy is it a lot harder than I think those of us who have always been more fortunate think it is.
  - lcall 7y ago
    Just to confirm I am not making things from a standpoint of $ given to us: My grandparents were either both legally blind (one side, very poor and kids stressed out), or rather poor (especially compared to most americans today) farmers in Mexico with 13 children. The "privilege" I have enjoyed (other than skin/benefit of the doubt?--unsure since I probably don't fully understand that from everyone else's perspective: just acknowledging I don't know everything) is encouragement to work hard and that I could do it, during my whole upbringing. My dad was a school teacher (and part-time painter and newspaper deliverer) and my mom a full-time mom (stressful, but it sure helped us as kids to feel secure). Things were hard, but on we go, and I am grateful. Maybe rambling now.

bcrosby95 7y ago

If you make little enough and live in a major metro area its pretty easy to burn through any savings you have. I have several friends now in their 40s now that used to continually cycle the steps of: lost job -> spent savings -> debt -> got job -> payoff debt -> generate savings -> lost job -> ... At some point they just lost hope. I can't blame them for racking up debt if the system lets them continue. It sounds better to continually pay off debt and enjoy life instead of to continually pay off debt and not enjoy it.

lcall 7y ago
I am not selling anything (maybe some software someday, but that's a different topic). But I think about things like this a lot and have posted many thoughts, over time. I hope you don't mind but this is my best work in this area, so far, over some years. (Truly, we do not need to be alone, or give up. I have been thru many things that ... leave me grateful now. So I hope this can be useful to someone....) There are people who can help, with guidance, and in other ways. One list (many resources): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854601245.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854601245.html . Another (having the Church as help in life): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581807.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581807.html . Another: extended family. Another (general life lessons and resources found, including overcoming addictions, but much more): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854592298.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854592298.html . Another (pray): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854585359.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854585359.html . I have learned by long and much-repeated personal experience (the easy way and the hard way) that prayer makes a huge difference, if we are willing to do our part and be obedient to God when we know what we should be doing: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854580889.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854580889.html . And how I learned that: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html . More resources (better than the above stuff): https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng Wishing the best for everyone in tough circumstances (which seems to be all of us at one time or another)! (edits: minor fixes, add the providentliving.org url.)
- sharkmerry 7y ago