5 ms·

While true, the number of 90% is a little misleading. The vote was declared unconstitutional and illegal by Spanish government, so many people against a separat

by rolae 7y ago

While true, the number of 90% is a little misleading. The vote was declared unconstitutional and illegal by Spanish government, so many people against a separation did not show up to vote. However with a voter turnout of 43%, it is still a strong signal in favor of separation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_refe...

wklauss 7y ago
It is extremely misleading. Support for secession in Catalonia hovers around 40%.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Sources?
  - wklauss 7y ago
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/10/11/the-myth-of-massive-support-for-independence-in-catalonia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/10/1... The last wave from the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió from the Generalitat (Local Government), measures support for independence at 44% vs 48% who wish to remain part of Spain. http://www.rtve.es/contenidos/documentos/barometro_ceo_julio_2019.pdf http://www.rtve.es/contenidos/documentos/barometro_ceo_julio...
    - hutzlibu 7y ago
      "Altogether, parties supporting Catalan independence received 48 percent of the vote." 48>40 So from far away, I would question the neutrality of the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió. Also, if the numbers are right, then why on earth does the spanish government escalate and not just let them have a referendum which fails and have peace afterwards?
      - portillo 7y ago
        > So from far away, I would question the neutrality of the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió. They are the "Department of Statistics" of Catalonia, and they are controlled by the local government (pro-independence), so i am not sure why would they be biased to report lower support than the actual one. Our Constitution does not consider secession of part of a territory. To hold a referendum, they will have to change the constitution first, which is unlikely to happen in the short term. Also, I am not sure that a referèndum is the best way to settle this conflict. I think that other options that can gather the support of more than 50% of the population would offer a better solution. (i.e., how do you build a new country when half of the population feels strongly about it?)
        enriquto 7y ago
        > how do you build a new country when half of the population feels strongly about it this is exactly the current situation with spain! About half of catalans feel very strongly against the spanish state. This is obviously not sustainable. But the spaniards prefer to bully the catalans, to earn votes elsewhere, than to solve the problem once and for all by holding a binding independence referendum. I for one couldn't care less anymore about the spanish position. I do not consider spain a legitimate state, and we will have to free ourselves from it by any means necessary.
        harperlee 7y ago
        You seem to have forgotten that half of catalans want to keep being spanish. This is not catalans vs. the rest, however convenient that narrative is.
      - lemming 7y ago
        why on earth does the spanish government escalate and not just let them have a referendum which fails and have peace afterwards? Brexit would like a word with you.
        hutzlibu 7y ago

by rolae 7y ago

wklauss 7y ago

It is extremely misleading. Support for secession in Catalonia hovers around 40%.

hutzlibu 7y ago
Sources?
- wklauss 7y ago
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/10/11/the-myth-of-massive-support-for-independence-in-catalonia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/10/1... The last wave from the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió from the Generalitat (Local Government), measures support for independence at 44% vs 48% who wish to remain part of Spain. http://www.rtve.es/contenidos/documentos/barometro_ceo_julio_2019.pdf http://www.rtve.es/contenidos/documentos/barometro_ceo_julio...
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    "Altogether, parties supporting Catalan independence received 48 percent of the vote." 48>40 So from far away, I would question the neutrality of the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió. Also, if the numbers are right, then why on earth does the spanish government escalate and not just let them have a referendum which fails and have peace afterwards?
    - portillo 7y ago
      > So from far away, I would question the neutrality of the Centre d'Studis d'Opinió. They are the "Department of Statistics" of Catalonia, and they are controlled by the local government (pro-independence), so i am not sure why would they be biased to report lower support than the actual one. Our Constitution does not consider secession of part of a territory. To hold a referendum, they will have to change the constitution first, which is unlikely to happen in the short term. Also, I am not sure that a referèndum is the best way to settle this conflict. I think that other options that can gather the support of more than 50% of the population would offer a better solution. (i.e., how do you build a new country when half of the population feels strongly about it?)
      - enriquto 7y ago
        > how do you build a new country when half of the population feels strongly about it this is exactly the current situation with spain! About half of catalans feel very strongly against the spanish state. This is obviously not sustainable. But the spaniards prefer to bully the catalans, to earn votes elsewhere, than to solve the problem once and for all by holding a binding independence referendum. I for one couldn't care less anymore about the spanish position. I do not consider spain a legitimate state, and we will have to free ourselves from it by any means necessary.
        harperlee 7y ago
        You seem to have forgotten that half of catalans want to keep being spanish. This is not catalans vs. the rest, however convenient that narrative is.
    - lemming 7y ago
      why on earth does the spanish government escalate and not just let them have a referendum which fails and have peace afterwards? Brexit would like a word with you.
      - hutzlibu 7y ago