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I love what Amazon is doing with AWS, and I like this new service a lot. Plus I'm a happy customer. But damn this is all getting very complicated. First they t

I love what Amazon is doing with AWS, and I like this new service a lot. Plus I'm a happy customer. But damn this is all getting very complicated. First they turn off email, so you have to find a provider, then they turn it back on, but you have to pay them. Looking at my AWS console, I've got 8 or 9 tabs on there -- each representing a little piece of what I might want in an app. Each has it's own help section with bunches of docs to read to get up to speed. Each has it's own forum category. Each has a usage policy. Don't get me wrong -- it's all good stuff. But good luck trying to guestimate what kinds of prices you'll be paying. You're paying for data transfer in and out of the cloud, you're paying for disk storage, you're paying for a database, you're paying for basic email services, etc. So I'm kind of stuck looking at the monthly bill and saying "Does this look about right?" instead of having some firm idea of what's going on without having to use a spreadsheet and 3 whiteboards. That's no good. It's probably completely acceptable for BigCorp, who has a guy dedicated to figuring all of this out and managing it, but I'm busy and pressed for time all I want is the big red button to push -- and a known price for pushing it. I love what they're doing. Just wish they'd put a little more "simple" back into it, especially in terms of pricing and bundling.

kevin_morrill 16y ago
Seems like a white labeling opportunity. Though I am not sure if their TOS allows it.
- ez77 16y ago
  Could anyone explain the usage of 'white label' here? The Wikipedia entry (+) doesn't help this foreign speaker. (+) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product
  - jrnkntl 16y ago
    Resell services under another name, maybe in another package. In this particular case, with a fixed price :)
  - detst 16y ago
    "White label" in this context would basically be a middleman. Customer pays the white label for the AWS services and the white label pays AWS. The white label would obviously have to offer something of value and in this discussion, that value would be predictable pricing and maybe simplification of the services.
    - ez77 16y ago
      Thank you and jrnkntl (edit: and alttab) for explaining it.
    - corin_ 16y ago
      Actually white label doesn't quite describe it correctly, as white label is normally just that - a relabelling. Typically, in addition to releasing it as a different brand for the same services, pricing might be altered, customer service would be seperate, different marketing, and so on. It's not a term designed for creating a new service that happens to use AWS underneath it. (Depending on how much the "simplification of the services" changes the AWS offering, maybe I'm being pedantic, but maybe not. Dropbox, for example, is not a white label solution, it's a completely seperate example, even if it 100% uses AWS services.)
- alttab 16y ago
  I think white label here means manage and package aws services under one bill Edit, which could also mean a custom interface
- executive 16y ago
  Sendgrid is essentially an Amazon white label e-mail service now.
- sofuture 16y ago
  See: Heroku AWS is awesome for exactly that reason, one can build a more integrated package on top of the individual parts and sell it.
  - charlesju 16y ago
    Or dropbox...
plusbryan 16y ago
You think that's complicated? Boy, back in my day, we didn't have no fancy "management console" or "tabs". Why, you had to play with your AWS services by hand! And you liked it.
- subbu 16y ago
  Wanted: A webapp/dashboard that tracks money you have spent acorss Amazon services.
  - frisco 16y ago
    http://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws/developer/account/index.html?ie=UTF8&action=activity-summary http://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws/developer/account/index....
  - anonymous246 16y ago
    There is actually a company that does this. But since Amazon doesn't do OAuth, they require you to give them your amazon login and password. They download your account usage logs from amazon and put a GUI over it. The password requirement was a showstopper for me so I didn't even try the co. The graphs sure looked pretty. :) Sorry, the name of the company escapes me ATM.
    - joseakle 16y ago
      ylastic.com
- easp 16y ago
  Which was still infinitely better than racking your own servers and then, later, driving to the colo at 4:30 am because of yet another contingency you failed to anticipate in your HA planning. One of the earlier contingencies was that the colo's "remote hands" service was actually staffed by bonobos.
ajju 16y ago
Seriously, the lack of a flat fee model is the main thing that has kept me away from AWS.
- sofuture 16y ago
  That's the point, though: usage driven fees. It's absolutely not the most economical offering, but the freedom and ability to either quadruple your infrastructure or shut it down entirely, no strings attached, in an instant is what you're paying for.
  - anto1ne 16y ago
    With most of dedicated server providers now, you can get any server with a 1 month contract, no strings attached, for a fraction of the price of an equivalent ec2 instance, and good IO as a bonus. And good providers usually delivers within 24h. I love aws services and use them myself, but for ec2, but I doubt most users have such volatile needs. The main advantage I see, for aws users (non ec2) is to have everything in the same place.
    - rapind 16y ago
      I would love it if you could provide a link to your cheaper for more service providers. I've not found anything comparable for less $. Also, if you're comparing lock-in prices, compare them against the EC2 reserved instance prices.
      - boundlessdreamz 16y ago
        How about http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-eq http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-pr... and http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-special http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-pr... been with them for 3+ years and never had a problem
        rapind 16y ago
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
easp 16y ago
In my limited experience, the actual costs have been small enough that I regret even spending time on a detailed spreadsheet based cost model to predict costs. At some point, that will change. At that point I'll have a very clear basis for calculating ROI on migrating to different infrastructure.
Travis 16y ago
On the other hand, because of the utility-based charges, you can run tests for a week or two if you'd like. Also, it sounds like what you're looking for is basically a calculator on top of the service -- are there really no decent calculators online? I think Elastic Beanstalk is intended to reduce much of this complexity, as well. Want your app to just scale? clicks on EBeanstalk.

kevin_morrill 16y ago

Seems like a white labeling opportunity. Though I am not sure if their TOS allows it.

ez77 16y ago
Could anyone explain the usage of 'white label' here? The Wikipedia entry (+) doesn't help this foreign speaker. (+) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product
- jrnkntl 16y ago
  Resell services under another name, maybe in another package. In this particular case, with a fixed price :)
- detst 16y ago
  "White label" in this context would basically be a middleman. Customer pays the white label for the AWS services and the white label pays AWS. The white label would obviously have to offer something of value and in this discussion, that value would be predictable pricing and maybe simplification of the services.
  - ez77 16y ago
    Thank you and jrnkntl (edit: and alttab) for explaining it.
  - corin_ 16y ago
    Actually white label doesn't quite describe it correctly, as white label is normally just that - a relabelling. Typically, in addition to releasing it as a different brand for the same services, pricing might be altered, customer service would be seperate, different marketing, and so on. It's not a term designed for creating a new service that happens to use AWS underneath it. (Depending on how much the "simplification of the services" changes the AWS offering, maybe I'm being pedantic, but maybe not. Dropbox, for example, is not a white label solution, it's a completely seperate example, even if it 100% uses AWS services.)
alttab 16y ago
I think white label here means manage and package aws services under one bill Edit, which could also mean a custom interface
executive 16y ago
Sendgrid is essentially an Amazon white label e-mail service now.
sofuture 16y ago
See: Heroku AWS is awesome for exactly that reason, one can build a more integrated package on top of the individual parts and sell it.
- charlesju 16y ago
  Or dropbox...

plusbryan 16y ago

You think that's complicated? Boy, back in my day, we didn't have no fancy "management console" or "tabs". Why, you had to play with your AWS services by hand! And you liked it.

subbu 16y ago
Wanted: A webapp/dashboard that tracks money you have spent acorss Amazon services.
- frisco 16y ago
  http://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws/developer/account/index.html?ie=UTF8&action=activity-summary http://aws-portal.amazon.com/gp/aws/developer/account/index....
- anonymous246 16y ago
  There is actually a company that does this. But since Amazon doesn't do OAuth, they require you to give them your amazon login and password. They download your account usage logs from amazon and put a GUI over it. The password requirement was a showstopper for me so I didn't even try the co. The graphs sure looked pretty. :) Sorry, the name of the company escapes me ATM.
  - joseakle 16y ago
    ylastic.com
easp 16y ago
Which was still infinitely better than racking your own servers and then, later, driving to the colo at 4:30 am because of yet another contingency you failed to anticipate in your HA planning. One of the earlier contingencies was that the colo's "remote hands" service was actually staffed by bonobos.

ajju 16y ago

Seriously, the lack of a flat fee model is the main thing that has kept me away from AWS.

sofuture 16y ago
That's the point, though: usage driven fees. It's absolutely not the most economical offering, but the freedom and ability to either quadruple your infrastructure or shut it down entirely, no strings attached, in an instant is what you're paying for.
- anto1ne 16y ago
  With most of dedicated server providers now, you can get any server with a 1 month contract, no strings attached, for a fraction of the price of an equivalent ec2 instance, and good IO as a bonus. And good providers usually delivers within 24h. I love aws services and use them myself, but for ec2, but I doubt most users have such volatile needs. The main advantage I see, for aws users (non ec2) is to have everything in the same place.
  - rapind 16y ago
    I would love it if you could provide a link to your cheaper for more service providers. I've not found anything comparable for less $. Also, if you're comparing lock-in prices, compare them against the EC2 reserved instance prices.
    - boundlessdreamz 16y ago
      How about http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-eq http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-pr... and http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-special http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-pr... been with them for 3+ years and never had a problem
      - rapind 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

easp 16y ago

In my limited experience, the actual costs have been small enough that I regret even spending time on a detailed spreadsheet based cost model to predict costs. At some point, that will change. At that point I'll have a very clear basis for calculating ROI on migrating to different infrastructure.

Travis 16y ago

On the other hand, because of the utility-based charges, you can run tests for a week or two if you'd like. Also, it sounds like what you're looking for is basically a calculator on top of the service -- are there really no decent calculators online? I think Elastic Beanstalk is intended to reduce much of this complexity, as well. Want your app to just scale? clicks on EBeanstalk.