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> Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility. Most people do accept responsibility. This is the problem: >In the decade through

> Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility. Most people do accept responsibility. This is the problem: >In the decade through 2018, average household incomes for those with a high school diploma have risen about 15%, to roughly $46,000, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau data available. >Not only is that less than the 20% increase registered on a broad basket of goods over the span, but key costs that play an outsize role in middle-class budgets have increased much more: home prices are up 26%, medical care 33%, and college costs a whopping 45%. >To keep up, Americans borrowed. A lot. Unsecured personal loans, as well as mortgage, auto, credit-card and student debt have all steadily climbed over the span. Companies don't give (adequate) raises. They return money to investors. So, every year, the middle class is losing ground. These people are desperate. You can mock them all you want, but they're out there building your home, making sure your utilities stay on, deliver your produce to your favorite store. They're trying, but the economy is taking advantage of them.

twh270 7y ago
That is a problem. Also, personal responsibility (or the lack thereof) is a problem. Jebus. Seems like everyone wants one thing to blame. It ain't that simple.
geggam 7y ago
> but the economy is taking advantage of them. Interested in hearing how you explain this. I dont disagree with you but I would like to know what you see as the root cause.
- Djvacto 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure it's explained by the description of "Company gets money through directing employee labor, but an uneven portion of it is given back to shareholders instead of employees". aka being employed is a worse deal than being an investor, disproportionately.
  - geggam 7y ago
    I was hoping for more insight than "my employer doesnt pay enough" ... while true its not really a root cause of the situation IMO You can always start your own business or simply work for a different company. No one owes you employment.
    - ianleeclark 7y ago
      > You can always start your own business How is starting your own business an even remotely viable option for people who are so desperate that they're taking these predatory loans?
      - geggam 7y ago
        Several things come to mind here. What is stopping them from starting the business ? Govt regulations ? Are you saying big govt is preventing you from starting a business ? Do you think more govt will fix the problem ? Govt regulations dont stop undocumented immigrants from coming here to work. They come from a place where govt regulations dont stop them from starting a business. What is the answer ? More social programs or less ? Or is it the fact the undocumented immigrants arent quitting ?
        ianleeclark 7y ago
        > What is stopping them from starting the business ? Resources, obviously. If someone is screwed enough to have to reach for pay-day loans, that indicates they don't have enough resources. Likely their other credit lines are maxed out and their social support nets are either completely dissolved or just as illiquid as the prospective borrower is. So they can't invest any starting capital into the investment. The second most important resource constraint they're going to be met with is time. Balancing commuting to work, keeping up the household, and full-time work of at least one job leaves you with an amount of time at the end of the day. Maybe they could invest that time into acquiring more marketable skills, but, hey, your lease is up in two months, and you just got the letter that inevitably tells you your rent is going up. Better start driving uber, trying to grab more hours, or doing whatever you need to to cover that new income gap that you'll be facing. > What is the answer ? There is no answer. You don't get conclusions when you're living in poverty in modern America. You just wake up every day and it's somehow worse than the day before.

twh270 7y ago

That is a problem. Also, personal responsibility (or the lack thereof) is a problem. Jebus. Seems like everyone wants one thing to blame. It ain't that simple.

geggam 7y ago

> but the economy is taking advantage of them. Interested in hearing how you explain this. I dont disagree with you but I would like to know what you see as the root cause.

Djvacto 7y ago
I'm pretty sure it's explained by the description of "Company gets money through directing employee labor, but an uneven portion of it is given back to shareholders instead of employees". aka being employed is a worse deal than being an investor, disproportionately.
- geggam 7y ago
  I was hoping for more insight than "my employer doesnt pay enough" ... while true its not really a root cause of the situation IMO You can always start your own business or simply work for a different company. No one owes you employment.
  - ianleeclark 7y ago
    > You can always start your own business How is starting your own business an even remotely viable option for people who are so desperate that they're taking these predatory loans?
    - geggam 7y ago
      Several things come to mind here. What is stopping them from starting the business ? Govt regulations ? Are you saying big govt is preventing you from starting a business ? Do you think more govt will fix the problem ? Govt regulations dont stop undocumented immigrants from coming here to work. They come from a place where govt regulations dont stop them from starting a business. What is the answer ? More social programs or less ? Or is it the fact the undocumented immigrants arent quitting ?
      - ianleeclark 7y ago
        > What is stopping them from starting the business ? Resources, obviously. If someone is screwed enough to have to reach for pay-day loans, that indicates they don't have enough resources. Likely their other credit lines are maxed out and their social support nets are either completely dissolved or just as illiquid as the prospective borrower is. So they can't invest any starting capital into the investment. The second most important resource constraint they're going to be met with is time. Balancing commuting to work, keeping up the household, and full-time work of at least one job leaves you with an amount of time at the end of the day. Maybe they could invest that time into acquiring more marketable skills, but, hey, your lease is up in two months, and you just got the letter that inevitably tells you your rent is going up. Better start driving uber, trying to grab more hours, or doing whatever you need to to cover that new income gap that you'll be facing. > What is the answer ? There is no answer. You don't get conclusions when you're living in poverty in modern America. You just wake up every day and it's somehow worse than the day before.