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Nope, it's still virtue signalling. By acknowledging the need to have a paragraph of text that boils down to "play nice, or we'll take your things away", you've

Nope, it's still virtue signalling. By acknowledging the need to have a paragraph of text that boils down to "play nice, or we'll take your things away", you've already given trolls too much legitimacy and power. Why is it so hard to start from a position of: assume all participants want to make the project better from the start until otherwise seen?

pjc50 7y ago
That leads to "the person complaining about a problem is trying to make the project worse, so all we have to do is ban the person who said that <prominent contributor> groped them at a conference and we can get back to work". (That example was not referencing any particular case, BTW)
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  More likely that the person complaining about a social problem is actually trying to make the project worse. Like e.g. outsiders coming out of the woodwork to push CoCs on projects that don't have them. > so all we have to do is ban the person who said that <prominent contributor> groped them at a conference and we can get back to work Yes. Such an issue should be brought to the police, not be posted on an issue tracker for rallying social media lynch mobs. Cases of exaggerating or straight up lying about sexual harassment in order to remove or destroy someone are common enough, and consequences of a mistaken judgement severe, so the presumption of innocence is very important.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    > Such an issue should be brought to the police ... who will often ignore it. > Cases of exaggerating or straight up lying about sexual harassment in order to remove or destroy someone are common enough Are they?
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > ... who will often ignore it. Which is still not a justification for making public accusations of illegal, perhaps criminal behavior on a project issue tracker or mailing list. > Are they? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
    - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
      > ... who will often ignore it. Acknowledged that it may happen in some cases, and that is extremely regrettable and frustrating. However, I believe that is no justification for jumping straight to what I consider pretty much "mob justice". Investigations still matter. Facts still matter. You fundamentally have a right to confront your accuser and challenge the evidence in a court of law, before a judgement and potential punishment is rendered upon you. You don't get the same benefit when you are being tried in the court of public opinion (social media). I get suspicious when people skip the court of law route and only pursue the court of public opinion route.

pjc50 7y ago

That leads to "the person complaining about a problem is trying to make the project worse, so all we have to do is ban the person who said that <prominent contributor> groped them at a conference and we can get back to work". (That example was not referencing any particular case, BTW)

TeMPOraL 7y ago
More likely that the person complaining about a social problem is actually trying to make the project worse. Like e.g. outsiders coming out of the woodwork to push CoCs on projects that don't have them. > so all we have to do is ban the person who said that <prominent contributor> groped them at a conference and we can get back to work Yes. Such an issue should be brought to the police, not be posted on an issue tracker for rallying social media lynch mobs. Cases of exaggerating or straight up lying about sexual harassment in order to remove or destroy someone are common enough, and consequences of a mistaken judgement severe, so the presumption of innocence is very important.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > Such an issue should be brought to the police ... who will often ignore it. > Cases of exaggerating or straight up lying about sexual harassment in order to remove or destroy someone are common enough Are they?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > ... who will often ignore it. Which is still not a justification for making public accusations of illegal, perhaps criminal behavior on a project issue tracker or mailing list. > Are they? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    > ... who will often ignore it. Acknowledged that it may happen in some cases, and that is extremely regrettable and frustrating. However, I believe that is no justification for jumping straight to what I consider pretty much "mob justice". Investigations still matter. Facts still matter. You fundamentally have a right to confront your accuser and challenge the evidence in a court of law, before a judgement and potential punishment is rendered upon you. You don't get the same benefit when you are being tried in the court of public opinion (social media). I get suspicious when people skip the court of law route and only pursue the court of public opinion route.