4 ms·

What you're saying is taking into account only big cities and young population, but in small places and suburbs you depend on cars to do anything, get anywhere.

What you're saying is taking into account only big cities and young population, but in small places and suburbs you depend on cars to do anything, get anywhere. Old people can't be expected to walk far or drive scooters and bikes everyday. And population is mostly getting older, plus with the rise of remote work I presume that more and more people will move outside the big urban centers looking for slower pace and cheaper life, closer to the nature. That means cars will be needed more, not less, and driverless cars can save you a lot of time when commuting everyday.

jdavis703 7y ago
> Old people can't be expected to walk far or drive scooters and bikes everyday. Yet that's what one sees in Copenhagen.
- ivanhoe 7y ago
  And Copenhagen is well known for its high hills, right? Not everyone lives in Holland and Copenhagen and other flat places. Also, while it's definitely great that Scandinavians live their healthy and slightly ascetic lifestyle, it's not everyones cup of tea outside of those specific nations/cultures. Maybe it should be, by all means if this is what young people want they should do it one day when they grow old. But it's silly to expect from old people who grew up in some other time to now suddenly jump into that lifestyle, especially in places that naturally don't fit it. Walking short distances, great. Public transportation, also great. Bikes for everyone... well, great for those who want it, but leave people a room to dislike riding a bike (or anything else) for whatever their reason is.
  - fergie 7y ago
    "And Copenhagen is well known for its high hills, right?" No, but Oslo is, and they are gradually phasing cars out of the city centre
  - kiba 7y ago
    That is why you have electric bikes to tackle those high hills. Anyway, young people biking more means that more older people will actually be able to bike, because exercise helps with increasing mobility as we age.
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    Barcelona seemed very walkable to me after a month I saw people of all ages on foot and bikes even during the summer heat wave and it is not flat at all.
mikestew 7y ago
Old people can't be expected to walk far or drive scooters and bikes everyday. You need to give some serious readjustment to your mental image of “old people”. Perhaps the word you’re looking for is “disabled” or “differently-abled”, depending upon your preference. Some of those people, maybe disproportionately so, also happen to be old. I’d type more, but this AARP member crashed his scooter on the way to work on Friday, and my shoulder’s still a little sore. Wear your helmets, mine cracked so that my skull wouldn’t.
- ivanhoe 7y ago
  I myself am 40+ and seriously obese, so I'm definitely counting myself into that "too old for e-scooter" group, but I actually had in mind average around-70-and-plus people around me, like my parents and their friends, the "real old people". They can walk but can't walk across the city every day, they can go on a leisure bike ride, but not ride it uphill (and we don't all live in flatland like Dutch), and you definitely can't seriously expect them to move around that way every day all around the year. You can't expect me either, btw, really sorry if I don't match nowadays modern lifestyle standards. Which are btw ridiculous as combination of walking and eco-friendly public transportation are much more sustainable (and for many enjoyable) solution than everyone zipping around in their e-scooters and e-bikes and whatnot which are all being charged everyday from the grid.
  - mikestew 7y ago
    but I actually had in mind average around-70-and-plus people around me, like my parents and their friends, the "real old people". Guess what, me, too! My anecdata are from a more active group, though. So we have differing views of the world, and that’s fine. I’ve never been overweight a day in my life, so I try to avoid general, “all ya need to do is...” It demonstrates a lack of empathy and a small world view. But I would ask the same of others. Yes, there are people with limited mobility. I get that. But they’re still a minority, and does it need to be brought up every g-ddamned time the subject comes up that not everyone can ride a scooter? Most people can, can we talk about them for a minute before dive off into the edge cases? We can talk about limited mobility options, no we will talk about them, just maybe later. But the reason we have cities over run with cars now is because way too many people who are otherwise capable think they can’t hobble more than a city block, and only under perfect conditions.
bluGill 7y ago
For the vast majority of old people their doctor would disagree: they need to get out and walk more. Yes slowing down is important, but their health would overall be improved by walking more. For those not yet old walking more is more a mental barrier than a physical one.

jdavis703 7y ago

> Old people can't be expected to walk far or drive scooters and bikes everyday. Yet that's what one sees in Copenhagen.

ivanhoe 7y ago
And Copenhagen is well known for its high hills, right? Not everyone lives in Holland and Copenhagen and other flat places. Also, while it's definitely great that Scandinavians live their healthy and slightly ascetic lifestyle, it's not everyones cup of tea outside of those specific nations/cultures. Maybe it should be, by all means if this is what young people want they should do it one day when they grow old. But it's silly to expect from old people who grew up in some other time to now suddenly jump into that lifestyle, especially in places that naturally don't fit it. Walking short distances, great. Public transportation, also great. Bikes for everyone... well, great for those who want it, but leave people a room to dislike riding a bike (or anything else) for whatever their reason is.
- fergie 7y ago
  "And Copenhagen is well known for its high hills, right?" No, but Oslo is, and they are gradually phasing cars out of the city centre
- kiba 7y ago
  That is why you have electric bikes to tackle those high hills. Anyway, young people biking more means that more older people will actually be able to bike, because exercise helps with increasing mobility as we age.
- stevenwoo 7y ago
  Barcelona seemed very walkable to me after a month I saw people of all ages on foot and bikes even during the summer heat wave and it is not flat at all.

mikestew 7y ago

Old people can't be expected to walk far or drive scooters and bikes everyday. You need to give some serious readjustment to your mental image of “old people”. Perhaps the word you’re looking for is “disabled” or “differently-abled”, depending upon your preference. Some of those people, maybe disproportionately so, also happen to be old. I’d type more, but this AARP member crashed his scooter on the way to work on Friday, and my shoulder’s still a little sore. Wear your helmets, mine cracked so that my skull wouldn’t.

ivanhoe 7y ago
I myself am 40+ and seriously obese, so I'm definitely counting myself into that "too old for e-scooter" group, but I actually had in mind average around-70-and-plus people around me, like my parents and their friends, the "real old people". They can walk but can't walk across the city every day, they can go on a leisure bike ride, but not ride it uphill (and we don't all live in flatland like Dutch), and you definitely can't seriously expect them to move around that way every day all around the year. You can't expect me either, btw, really sorry if I don't match nowadays modern lifestyle standards. Which are btw ridiculous as combination of walking and eco-friendly public transportation are much more sustainable (and for many enjoyable) solution than everyone zipping around in their e-scooters and e-bikes and whatnot which are all being charged everyday from the grid.
- mikestew 7y ago
  but I actually had in mind average around-70-and-plus people around me, like my parents and their friends, the "real old people". Guess what, me, too! My anecdata are from a more active group, though. So we have differing views of the world, and that’s fine. I’ve never been overweight a day in my life, so I try to avoid general, “all ya need to do is...” It demonstrates a lack of empathy and a small world view. But I would ask the same of others. Yes, there are people with limited mobility. I get that. But they’re still a minority, and does it need to be brought up every g-ddamned time the subject comes up that not everyone can ride a scooter? Most people can, can we talk about them for a minute before dive off into the edge cases? We can talk about limited mobility options, no we will talk about them, just maybe later. But the reason we have cities over run with cars now is because way too many people who are otherwise capable think they can’t hobble more than a city block, and only under perfect conditions.

bluGill 7y ago

For the vast majority of old people their doctor would disagree: they need to get out and walk more. Yes slowing down is important, but their health would overall be improved by walking more. For those not yet old walking more is more a mental barrier than a physical one.