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> I use macOS & Linux, and while the default text handling system called Cocoa Text System in macOS handles input methods well, almost all applications that imp
by hsivonen 7y ago
> I use macOS & Linux, and while the default text handling system called Cocoa Text System in macOS handles input methods well, almost all applications that implement it’s own, like big apps like Eclipse and Firefox, don’t get this right.
What specific IME problems do you have with Firefox on Mac?
> On Linux, it’s terrifying; I’ve never seen any app that allows input systems to work naturally, and after a week of use you get used to pressing space & backspace after finishing every Hangul word.
Do you mean you have to press space twice and erase the second space? With IBus?
- dfcowell 7y agoThere are no spaces between words in Chinese or Japanese. Pressing space confirms the current selection in the Japanese IME, which is expected behavior. Where some Linux implementations get it wrong is they also insert a space after the word, meaning the user has to select the desired word in the IME with the space bar and then remove the erroneous inserted space. Edit: Correction based on feedback below. Previously stated that Hangul does not have spaces.
- tasogare 7y ago> There are no spaces between words in Hangul Wrong, there are spaces between words in Korean. It’s in Japanese and Chinese that there isn’t. And in Vietnamese there are spaces between everyone syllables, even in words.
- bicolao 7y agoVietnamese does not really belong in CJK group because it's written with Latin alphabet.
- dfcowell 7y agoTraditional Vietnamese (before French colonialism) used Chinese characters.
- tasogare 7y agoThat was not my point. I mentioned Vietnamese because the spacing it uses is interesting. Also like dfcowell said, Vietnamese used to be written with han & chu nôm characters (respectively Chinese characters and Chinese-like characters created by Vietnamese), a lot of which are encoded in Unicode. Hence the existence of the CJKV acronym.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoIt is actually CJKV to deal with historical Vietnamese. From Unicode spec: > Although the term “CJK”—Chinese, Japanese, and Korean is used throughout this text to describe the languages that currently use Han ideographic characters, it should be noted that earlier Vietnamese writing systems were based on Han ideographs. Consequently, the term “CJKV” would be more accurate in a historical sense. Han ideographs are still used for historical, religious, and pedagogical purposes in Vietnam.
- dfcowell 7y agoThanks for the fact check. Not sure your comment on Vietnamese is accurate though. I work in a company with ~35% native Vietnamese speakers and I’ve seen plenty of multi-syllable words. Are you talking about traditional Vietnamese (when it still used Chinese characters) or modern Vietnamese (post-French-colonialism) which uses the Latin alphabet with accents?
- gdx 7y agoIt is accurate, there are spaces between each syllable in modern written Vietnamese, except in foreign words. The syllables can have as many as 7 characters, and you need an IME to type the tone marks. The written language looks like this: https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%E1%BB%87t_Nam https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%E1%BB%87t_Nam
- dfcowell 7y agoWow, you’re right. I never noticed (even while studying the basics myself) that syllables are space-separated. I always saw the words (e.g. “thanh pho” = city - don’t have the keyboard on my phone) as independent units. Didn’t even recognize the spaces. Amazing how something can be right in front of you without noticing it. So much makes sense now. Thanks again.
- hsivonen 7y ago> you need an IME to type the tone marks The standard Vietnamese keyboard layout works without an IME layer. However, apparently most people who write Vietnamese _prefer_ to use an IME.
- jfk13 7y agoNo, Korean is normally written with spaces between words nowadays (perhaps that wasn't always the case?). https://www.omniglot.com/writing/korean.htm https://www.omniglot.com/writing/korean.htm