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Actually, China has many of the same ideals codified into law that the West has. https://www.usconstitution.net/china.html#Article2 https://www.usconstitution.

Actually, China has many of the same ideals codified into law that the West has. https://www.usconstitution.net/china.html#Article2 https://www.usconstitution.net/china.html#Article2 >Article 35. Freedom of speech, press, assembly Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration. The reasons why people in both societies enjoy those rights differently is much more complicated than just whether they are codified.

mbesto 7y ago
In the US I can speak openly about Kent State and the government will not step in to silence me. Tiananmen Square on the other hand...
- wil421 7y ago
  GP can do something very simple as a test. I’ll go to Washington and he’ll go to Beijing. We will both hold up a sign criticizing each leader. I wonder what will happen... I’ll go to London, Berlin, and Paris and do the same thing. Maybe I’ll need a permit in the US/Europe and do it for a week.
  - knzhou 7y ago
    When I actually visit, I will look into this. It's easy to tell all kinds of crazy stories about would happen in China, but do you have direct evidence? I don't, but I know for a fact that expat communities usually bitterly hate the government, and blast those opinions publicly all over the internet.
    - mbesto 7y ago
      > but do you have direct evidence? All information about the Tiananmen Square massacre is blocked in China by the great firewall. What more evidence do you need?
      - knzhou 7y ago
        My extended family over there knows perfectly well what happened, they just don’t like to talk about it. And my parents know exactly what happened because they were there, and nobody’s coming after them. So without further evidence it seems to be equivalent to certain very contentious political topics in the US, which people are aware of, but you certainly cannot bring up.
        mbesto 7y ago
        Can your extended family research any of it? (search online, read about it in books, etc) Can they speak about it without being persecuted? Can anyone who isn't your extended family find information about it other than through informal channels? > to certain very contentious political topics in the US, which people are aware of, but you certainly cannot bring up. Like what? Please elaborate specifically? I'm so confused on what your stance is here. You realize there is a big difference between being persecuted by others for saying something or "knowing something" and being persecuted by the government for saying something or "knowing something"?

mbesto 7y ago

In the US I can speak openly about Kent State and the government will not step in to silence me. Tiananmen Square on the other hand...

wil421 7y ago
GP can do something very simple as a test. I’ll go to Washington and he’ll go to Beijing. We will both hold up a sign criticizing each leader. I wonder what will happen... I’ll go to London, Berlin, and Paris and do the same thing. Maybe I’ll need a permit in the US/Europe and do it for a week.
- knzhou 7y ago
  When I actually visit, I will look into this. It's easy to tell all kinds of crazy stories about would happen in China, but do you have direct evidence? I don't, but I know for a fact that expat communities usually bitterly hate the government, and blast those opinions publicly all over the internet.
  - mbesto 7y ago
    > but do you have direct evidence? All information about the Tiananmen Square massacre is blocked in China by the great firewall. What more evidence do you need?
    - knzhou 7y ago
      My extended family over there knows perfectly well what happened, they just don’t like to talk about it. And my parents know exactly what happened because they were there, and nobody’s coming after them. So without further evidence it seems to be equivalent to certain very contentious political topics in the US, which people are aware of, but you certainly cannot bring up.
      - mbesto 7y ago
        Can your extended family research any of it? (search online, read about it in books, etc) Can they speak about it without being persecuted? Can anyone who isn't your extended family find information about it other than through informal channels? > to certain very contentious political topics in the US, which people are aware of, but you certainly cannot bring up. Like what? Please elaborate specifically? I'm so confused on what your stance is here. You realize there is a big difference between being persecuted by others for saying something or "knowing something" and being persecuted by the government for saying something or "knowing something"?