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I do think you're right that it's something that middle class people can identify with. Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle

I do think you're right that it's something that middle class people can identify with. Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle class households, which has helped to humanize the problems with drug addiction. It's also to some degree perceived as less severe because selling drugs is generally something addicts do to other addicts; it's not victimless, but it's not something that victimizes those that aren't drug addicts (beyond helping to continue the cycle of addiction, and stopping that by prosecuting drug dealers hasn't proved effective). Forgery, on the other hand, is much harder to humanize for the middle class because it's generally a crime that victimizes the middle class. Many people are less likely to reduce the sentencing for things like that or burglary because it's a crime that might be inflicted on them, and they want their pound of flesh if it is.

wgerard 7y ago
> Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle class households, which has helped to humanize the problems with drug addiction. Interesting take! I've always thought it's because of the change in viewpoints towards marijuana (and to a lesser extent, psychedelics). Attitudes towards recreational marijuana use are far more liberal than they used to be. As it became more socially acceptable it caused much of America to re-examine attitudes towards penalizing drug usage in general, if only because it felt draconian to imprison someone from their milieu for smoking their illegal drug of choice (marijuana).
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
> Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle class households, which has helped to humanize the problems with drug addiction. Perhaps off topic, and apologies for discussing political issues, but this is the angle I always bring up when folks wonder where "Black Lives Matter" comes from. Reason being in the 80s we also had a horrible drug epidemic that destroyed lives and families, but the response was 180 degree opposite of what you see today with the opioid epidemic: drug users were derided as "crack whores" and "junkies", oppressive minimum sentences were enacted (with cheaper crack punished much more harshly than more expensive powder cocaine), and essentially 0 empathy shown towards drug users. Compare that today with even hardcore Republicans advocating empathy and treatment. "Black Lives Matter" is needed as a slogan because, quite honestly, black lives didn't matter, at least in the eyes of America at large.
- GhostVII 7y ago
  I think black lives matter has more to do with what is happening now than with what was happening in the 80s. Protesting because we are treating opioid users better than drug users 30 years ago doesn't make much sense.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    > I think black lives matter has more to do with what is happening now than with what was happening in the 80s. I absolutely agree, and I wasn't arguing against that. I just think when you hear things like the "All Lives Matter" retort, the juxtaposition between the crack epidemic and the opioid epidemic is such a crystal clear difference where (a) the crack epidemic really wasn't that long ago at all and (b) the race of the main affected communities is the only real difference that brought about all the huge differences in the societal response.
    - tropo 7y ago
      It's not race. It's how the addiction started. There is sympathy for people who started because a highly-educated and trusted professional made a prescription of an FDA-approved medicine to treat a severe injury. There is much less sympathy for somebody who started because they illegally got a substance for recreational purposes from a criminal. That is a world of difference, and race doesn't even come into the picture. TL;DR is that "my bone is sticking out of my leg" is different from "let's get fucked up".
  - coldtea 7y ago
    It does make sense, considering: 1) "30 years ago" is not some ancient time (as some people in the 20s might think). There are tons of people impacted from then, and tons of children and relatives of said people. 2) The "30 years ago" thing didn't stop "30 years ago". 30 years ago was just when it broke out...
    - pathseeker 7y ago
      Not really, especially when you ask people who are part of the movement. It's almost entirely about abuse from police, etc now.
grawprog 7y ago
>selling drugs is generally something addicts do to other addicts; When it comes to hard drugs, that's really not the case most of the time. Kind of hard to run a successful drug dealing operation when your consuming your own products. Especially gang dealers. A lot of gangs have no tolerance for their dealers doing drugs while selling. In a lot of cases these really are non addicts taking as much advantage of people as they can. >but it's not something that victimizes those that aren't drug addicts Ran into a junkie once, he asked to buy a smoke, then just started telling me his life story. He'd been engaged, ran his own company, owned a house. He ended up getting into a car accident, doctor prescribed him opiates, when his prescription was finished he started getting dopesick, he ended up finding someone who could sell him, oxy's(pretty sure that's what it was), anyway appparently his buddy or whatever.didn't have any one day offered him some heroin, helped him shoot up and pretty much started the dude's downward spiral into losing his entire life, not speaking to his family for years and had placed him in the position where he was asking me for a smoke on the street while trailing all his wordly possessions in a shopping cart. He was not happy with his life, he'd been too ashamed to talk to his parents for 6 years or something, there really isn't much help available for people like that. If they don't get into some kind of program, which, is not easy for people like that who have nobody, they're just stuck in that cycle.

wgerard 7y ago

> Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle class households, which has helped to humanize the problems with drug addiction. Interesting take! I've always thought it's because of the change in viewpoints towards marijuana (and to a lesser extent, psychedelics). Attitudes towards recreational marijuana use are far more liberal than they used to be. As it became more socially acceptable it caused much of America to re-examine attitudes towards penalizing drug usage in general, if only because it felt draconian to imprison someone from their milieu for smoking their illegal drug of choice (marijuana).

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

> Largely because the opioid crisis has started to impact a lot of middle class households, which has helped to humanize the problems with drug addiction. Perhaps off topic, and apologies for discussing political issues, but this is the angle I always bring up when folks wonder where "Black Lives Matter" comes from. Reason being in the 80s we also had a horrible drug epidemic that destroyed lives and families, but the response was 180 degree opposite of what you see today with the opioid epidemic: drug users were derided as "crack whores" and "junkies", oppressive minimum sentences were enacted (with cheaper crack punished much more harshly than more expensive powder cocaine), and essentially 0 empathy shown towards drug users. Compare that today with even hardcore Republicans advocating empathy and treatment. "Black Lives Matter" is needed as a slogan because, quite honestly, black lives didn't matter, at least in the eyes of America at large.

GhostVII 7y ago
I think black lives matter has more to do with what is happening now than with what was happening in the 80s. Protesting because we are treating opioid users better than drug users 30 years ago doesn't make much sense.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  > I think black lives matter has more to do with what is happening now than with what was happening in the 80s. I absolutely agree, and I wasn't arguing against that. I just think when you hear things like the "All Lives Matter" retort, the juxtaposition between the crack epidemic and the opioid epidemic is such a crystal clear difference where (a) the crack epidemic really wasn't that long ago at all and (b) the race of the main affected communities is the only real difference that brought about all the huge differences in the societal response.
  - tropo 7y ago
    It's not race. It's how the addiction started. There is sympathy for people who started because a highly-educated and trusted professional made a prescription of an FDA-approved medicine to treat a severe injury. There is much less sympathy for somebody who started because they illegally got a substance for recreational purposes from a criminal. That is a world of difference, and race doesn't even come into the picture. TL;DR is that "my bone is sticking out of my leg" is different from "let's get fucked up".
- coldtea 7y ago
  It does make sense, considering: 1) "30 years ago" is not some ancient time (as some people in the 20s might think). There are tons of people impacted from then, and tons of children and relatives of said people. 2) The "30 years ago" thing didn't stop "30 years ago". 30 years ago was just when it broke out...
  - pathseeker 7y ago
    Not really, especially when you ask people who are part of the movement. It's almost entirely about abuse from police, etc now.

grawprog 7y ago

>selling drugs is generally something addicts do to other addicts; When it comes to hard drugs, that's really not the case most of the time. Kind of hard to run a successful drug dealing operation when your consuming your own products. Especially gang dealers. A lot of gangs have no tolerance for their dealers doing drugs while selling. In a lot of cases these really are non addicts taking as much advantage of people as they can. >but it's not something that victimizes those that aren't drug addicts Ran into a junkie once, he asked to buy a smoke, then just started telling me his life story. He'd been engaged, ran his own company, owned a house. He ended up getting into a car accident, doctor prescribed him opiates, when his prescription was finished he started getting dopesick, he ended up finding someone who could sell him, oxy's(pretty sure that's what it was), anyway appparently his buddy or whatever.didn't have any one day offered him some heroin, helped him shoot up and pretty much started the dude's downward spiral into losing his entire life, not speaking to his family for years and had placed him in the position where he was asking me for a smoke on the street while trailing all his wordly possessions in a shopping cart. He was not happy with his life, he'd been too ashamed to talk to his parents for 6 years or something, there really isn't much help available for people like that. If they don't get into some kind of program, which, is not easy for people like that who have nobody, they're just stuck in that cycle.