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What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are. The fact that the CIA has

What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are. The fact that the CIA has been able to install leaders in previously hostile governments shows their competence. Aside from Iran, most of their operations were successful. Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. So how did it come to this? Why does it feel like the CIA dropped the ball on China?

hql2222 7y ago
> Why does it feel like the CIA dropped the ball on China? Because the CIA, literally, dropped the ball on China. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...
- xvector 7y ago
  How do you fall from being able to change the course of world history with shadow governments, to failing to even install operatives in the country? > Last year, an F.B.I. employee pleaded guilty to acting as a Chinese agent for years, passing sensitive technology information to Beijing in exchange for cash, lavish hotel rooms during foreign travel and prostitutes. That's how.
greenleafjacob 7y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_China
account73466 7y ago
>> We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are Yeah, it controls pretty much every communication device. >> Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. Compared to whom? No other country is any close in terms of controlling the world.
Causality1 7y ago
Simply put, defense isn't sexy. It's always easy to find people who want to discover a way to, for example, make foreign centrifuges blow themselves up. It's less easy to find people who want to spend eight hours a day preventing, say, ignorant government employees from clicking every link that shows up in their e-mail. Infiltrating a foreign telecom provider to use its smartphone OS update mechanism to hijack the phone of its head of state's wife and record secret conversations is sexy. Monitoring the behavior of apps installed on your own personnel's phones for potential hostile behavior is not sexy. Building a 1.5 trillion dollar fighter jet is sexy. Stopping China from repeatedly stealing all the project files is not.
zachguo 7y ago
They tried but failed. Now, most are done through NED and psyops, and it's pretty successful in terms of media manipulation.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Falun Gong is basically the only resistance left here, and you can see the line between CCP Chinese and non-CCP Chinese by walking down a major street: you can see where the Shen Yun posters end, and the Mandarin-only prints begin.
microcolonel 7y ago
> What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. Some Americans love to watch America suffer, because it makes them feel better about themselves; a similar thing to the British intellectuals who celebrated every British loss and defeat of the second world war, though they would not enjoy a total defeat.
DeonPenny 7y ago
Cause they did' China pretty much wipe out the CIA in their country. They've killed a lot of agents.
CharlesColeman 7y ago
> So how did it come to this? Why does it feel like the CIA dropped the ball on China? 1) I don't think the CIA has ever has been that powerful and 2) the US political establishment got arrogant and lazy after the fall of the Soviet Union.
- refurb 7y ago
  Agreed. Remember any story coming from the CIA is going to put them in the best light. If there is a civil war and the CIA backs one side with weapons, and that side wins, it doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have won without CIA support.
leakybit 7y ago
Politicians couldn't see through the illusion of free markets and capitalism.

hql2222 7y ago

> Why does it feel like the CIA dropped the ball on China? Because the CIA, literally, dropped the ball on China. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie...

xvector 7y ago
How do you fall from being able to change the course of world history with shadow governments, to failing to even install operatives in the country? > Last year, an F.B.I. employee pleaded guilty to acting as a Chinese agent for years, passing sensitive technology information to Beijing in exchange for cash, lavish hotel rooms during foreign travel and prostitutes. That's how.

greenleafjacob 7y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_China

account73466 7y ago

>> We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are Yeah, it controls pretty much every communication device. >> Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. Compared to whom? No other country is any close in terms of controlling the world.

Causality1 7y ago

Simply put, defense isn't sexy. It's always easy to find people who want to discover a way to, for example, make foreign centrifuges blow themselves up. It's less easy to find people who want to spend eight hours a day preventing, say, ignorant government employees from clicking every link that shows up in their e-mail. Infiltrating a foreign telecom provider to use its smartphone OS update mechanism to hijack the phone of its head of state's wife and record secret conversations is sexy. Monitoring the behavior of apps installed on your own personnel's phones for potential hostile behavior is not sexy. Building a 1.5 trillion dollar fighter jet is sexy. Stopping China from repeatedly stealing all the project files is not.

zachguo 7y ago

They tried but failed. Now, most are done through NED and psyops, and it's pretty successful in terms of media manipulation.

microcolonel 7y ago
Falun Gong is basically the only resistance left here, and you can see the line between CCP Chinese and non-CCP Chinese by walking down a major street: you can see where the Shen Yun posters end, and the Mandarin-only prints begin.

microcolonel 7y ago

> What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. Some Americans love to watch America suffer, because it makes them feel better about themselves; a similar thing to the British intellectuals who celebrated every British loss and defeat of the second world war, though they would not enjoy a total defeat.

DeonPenny 7y ago

Cause they did' China pretty much wipe out the CIA in their country. They've killed a lot of agents.

CharlesColeman 7y ago

> So how did it come to this? Why does it feel like the CIA dropped the ball on China? 1) I don't think the CIA has ever has been that powerful and 2) the US political establishment got arrogant and lazy after the fall of the Soviet Union.

refurb 7y ago
Agreed. Remember any story coming from the CIA is going to put them in the best light. If there is a civil war and the CIA backs one side with weapons, and that side wins, it doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have won without CIA support.

leakybit 7y ago

Politicians couldn't see through the illusion of free markets and capitalism.