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In Europe there are separate traffic lights for bicycles that turn green a few second earlier than the car traffic lights. This adds a lot of safety since the b

In Europe there are separate traffic lights for bicycles that turn green a few second earlier than the car traffic lights. This adds a lot of safety since the bikes have time to get past the first car in line. I think a lot of accidents where the car turns right and overlooks a bike in the blind spot can be prevented through this measure.

u801e 7y ago
> I think a lot of accidents where the car turns right and overlooks a bike in the blind spot can be prevented through [the separate bike signal] measure. This can also be prevented by not trying to pass right turning vehicles on the right and only pass them on their left.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Typically the car passes the bike which is riding to the right. Then the car turns right directly in front of the bike. Forgetting it was there, even though they just swerved around it.
  - u801e 7y ago
    That's because the driver believes the cyclist is going much slower than they actually are, but this can be mitigated by taking the lane when approaching an intersection such that the driver of the faster vehicle will make the turn from the same lane the cyclist is in. But there's another scenario where a cyclist is passing traffic on the right and then gets right-hooked by a vehicle making a right turn.
- Aaronmacaron 7y ago
  If bikes drove on the left side of the lane it would be impossible for cars to overtake bikes. (Overtaking on the right is illegal.)
  - u801e 7y ago
    Drivers of vehicles are supposed to pass on the left, so they can switch lanes to pass when safe to do so.
- Someone 7y ago
  So, you’re on your bike, in dense traffic. Even if all of them are already indicating direction, how do you know whether you’ll be next to a car wanting to turn right by the time you reach the junction? How do you even get from the right of a row of cars to the left of it in slow moving (⇒ short distances between cars) traffic? How do you get back to the right of the cars after making a turn? But even if that’s doable, it doesn’t apply here, where NY wants to build segregated bike lanes. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/junction-design/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/junction-design/ has plenty inspiration on how to design junctions for those, in particular https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-art-bikeway-design-a-further-look/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-a...
  - u801e 7y ago
    > how do you know whether you’ll be next to a car wanting to turn right by the time you reach the junction? Prior to the junction, you move into the center of the lane corresponding to your intended direction. If you plan to go straight, you get behind the vehicles that are going to make a right turn or go straight. Depending on how dense traffic is, you'll have to do this further in advance from the intersection. A lot of the time, you'll find that gaps are created in traffic by traffic lights. You can use one of those gaps to easily change lanes in advance for example. > https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-art-bikeway-design-a-further-look/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-a... The problem with the NACTO guidelines for this design is that cyclists are hidden by parked vehicles until shortly before the intersection, so, if a cyclist is approaching from behind the motorist, it's not possible for the motorist to see the cyclist before they start making their turn. Even with the curb extension, according to their example and measuring the distances in the provided diagrams on pages 12 and 13, a motorist will only be able to see roughly 8 feet down the cycle lane. That won't work when the cyclist is traveling at about 16 feet per second. The typical reaction time for something not completely expected is at least 1 to 1.5 seconds. The document also makes the assumption that the cyclist will yield to the car in that case, but many of them assume they have the right of way and that the motorist will stop prior to a collision. The other problem is that current US law and driver education states that drivers must make their turns as close to the edge of the road/curb as practicable and yield to pedestrians. They don't say anything about treating cyclists as pedestrians, and they do say that cyclists are considered vehicles and have all the rights and duties of vehicle operators (meaning they're expected to follow the rules of the road). In contrast, Dutch law and driver education is complementary to the intersection design you reference. But you're not going to change the law and driver education/training overnight.
flanbiscuit 7y ago
NYC has these as well. 8th Ave has a separate protected bike line for a large part of midtown down to the west village and the bike Lanes does have its own green light. I personally haven't seen it elsewhere but wouldn't be surprised if there were more

u801e 7y ago

> I think a lot of accidents where the car turns right and overlooks a bike in the blind spot can be prevented through [the separate bike signal] measure. This can also be prevented by not trying to pass right turning vehicles on the right and only pass them on their left.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
Typically the car passes the bike which is riding to the right. Then the car turns right directly in front of the bike. Forgetting it was there, even though they just swerved around it.
- u801e 7y ago
  That's because the driver believes the cyclist is going much slower than they actually are, but this can be mitigated by taking the lane when approaching an intersection such that the driver of the faster vehicle will make the turn from the same lane the cyclist is in. But there's another scenario where a cyclist is passing traffic on the right and then gets right-hooked by a vehicle making a right turn.
Aaronmacaron 7y ago
If bikes drove on the left side of the lane it would be impossible for cars to overtake bikes. (Overtaking on the right is illegal.)
- u801e 7y ago
  Drivers of vehicles are supposed to pass on the left, so they can switch lanes to pass when safe to do so.
Someone 7y ago
So, you’re on your bike, in dense traffic. Even if all of them are already indicating direction, how do you know whether you’ll be next to a car wanting to turn right by the time you reach the junction? How do you even get from the right of a row of cars to the left of it in slow moving (⇒ short distances between cars) traffic? How do you get back to the right of the cars after making a turn? But even if that’s doable, it doesn’t apply here, where NY wants to build segregated bike lanes. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/junction-design/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/junction-design/ has plenty inspiration on how to design junctions for those, in particular https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-art-bikeway-design-a-further-look/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-a...
- u801e 7y ago
  > how do you know whether you’ll be next to a car wanting to turn right by the time you reach the junction? Prior to the junction, you move into the center of the lane corresponding to your intended direction. If you plan to go straight, you get behind the vehicles that are going to make a right turn or go straight. Depending on how dense traffic is, you'll have to do this further in advance from the intersection. A lot of the time, you'll find that gaps are created in traffic by traffic lights. You can use one of those gaps to easily change lanes in advance for example. > https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-art-bikeway-design-a-further-look/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/state-of-the-a... The problem with the NACTO guidelines for this design is that cyclists are hidden by parked vehicles until shortly before the intersection, so, if a cyclist is approaching from behind the motorist, it's not possible for the motorist to see the cyclist before they start making their turn. Even with the curb extension, according to their example and measuring the distances in the provided diagrams on pages 12 and 13, a motorist will only be able to see roughly 8 feet down the cycle lane. That won't work when the cyclist is traveling at about 16 feet per second. The typical reaction time for something not completely expected is at least 1 to 1.5 seconds. The document also makes the assumption that the cyclist will yield to the car in that case, but many of them assume they have the right of way and that the motorist will stop prior to a collision. The other problem is that current US law and driver education states that drivers must make their turns as close to the edge of the road/curb as practicable and yield to pedestrians. They don't say anything about treating cyclists as pedestrians, and they do say that cyclists are considered vehicles and have all the rights and duties of vehicle operators (meaning they're expected to follow the rules of the road). In contrast, Dutch law and driver education is complementary to the intersection design you reference. But you're not going to change the law and driver education/training overnight.

flanbiscuit 7y ago

NYC has these as well. 8th Ave has a separate protected bike line for a large part of midtown down to the west village and the bike Lanes does have its own green light. I personally haven't seen it elsewhere but wouldn't be surprised if there were more