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You may have spent $0, as in that's the amount that left your pocket. However, you invested your time, your skills and expertise. While it's cool that you are

You may have spent $0, as in that's the amount that left your pocket. However, you invested your time, your skills and expertise. While it's cool that you are making headway, a better question is: does this financially make sense in the long run.

thomascgalvin 7y ago
Even if it ends up being a total waste of time, that's still better than a total waste of time and money. I would also argue that getting 40 paying customers is pretty decent validation, and the author can now spend money on marketing if that's the direction they want to take it.
tempsolution 7y ago
Exactly. I always find it amusing when people say they did something for 0$ by working in their spare time. This calculation doesn't make any sense. Can you build the initial Google project in your spare-time? Probably, if you find enough qualified volunteers. Does that mean it's a viable business? Absolutely not. You need to check how much you would have get paid when working in your last highest paying job... (Even when you do things in spare time)
- HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
  I get your point, but taken to its logical conclusion, no one should ever stop working, because it costs them money to do so. If my alternative is sitting in front of the TV, or reading a book, or gardening, or... whatever but I choose to do something like this, the cost of that time is effectively zero because that's what I would have been doing with it otherwise. So, by "working" at something I enjoy and that I'm doing by choice, I'm basically being paid to entertain myself.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Many people are salaried and won't get paid any additional money for working more hours at their job.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  However, there is a real difference how much you have spent in labour vs how much you have spent in capital. Although time is arguably more valuable than capital as a human, capital is often harder to come by. Whenever I read "I did X with only $Y", I don't think it actually cost $Y when taking into account labour and other externalities. I think it cost $Y of capital and that is a viable thing to talk about. Even in startups you hear that someone gets $1 million in seed money and works for a year receiving almost no salary -- just enough for a bed in a closet and ramen 3x a day. It's basically the same thing.
jontas 7y ago
If you read the original post (linked from this one) he explains that his goals were to learn new skills and keep his existing programming ability sharp. He has a full time job paying the bills and this was a labor of love. Given that context I think any paying customers / level of profitability is a success. Yes, you can do lots of math about cost of time and opportunity cost but that ignores the original intent behind the project. I played around with the tool a bit and it's actually pretty impressive--really solid for for a one person team and I wouldn't be surprised if it gains more users.
- thomasthelliez 7y ago
  Thank you Jontas for reading my previous article. What Success is may vary from one person to another. For me, this project is clearly a success but I understand if others do not feel that way.
nexuist 7y ago
Do things that don't scale [1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html
thomasthelliez 7y ago
Yes, I invested time but I took a tremendous amount of pleasure building it and I learned a lot in the process. Even if I made no money as a result, I think I would still have considered the project a success. Success because I am proud of what I did and it brings me happiness anyway just to have users (even free one)
- skmurphy 7y ago
  What would have been a stopping rule or failure condition that would have led you to abandon this approach? You have to distinguish between a hobby that brings you pleasure and the beginning of a business that will earn a profit if you valued your time at its opportunity cost.
flukus 7y ago
If they spent $$$ on gaining those customers instead they'd still have to spend time researching and monitoring where and how to spend those $$$ and that could easily require the same time investment. Few things are as simple as exchanging money to save time and most of those are already normalized.

thomascgalvin 7y ago

Even if it ends up being a total waste of time, that's still better than a total waste of time and money. I would also argue that getting 40 paying customers is pretty decent validation, and the author can now spend money on marketing if that's the direction they want to take it.

tempsolution 7y ago

Exactly. I always find it amusing when people say they did something for 0$ by working in their spare time. This calculation doesn't make any sense. Can you build the initial Google project in your spare-time? Probably, if you find enough qualified volunteers. Does that mean it's a viable business? Absolutely not. You need to check how much you would have get paid when working in your last highest paying job... (Even when you do things in spare time)

HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
I get your point, but taken to its logical conclusion, no one should ever stop working, because it costs them money to do so. If my alternative is sitting in front of the TV, or reading a book, or gardening, or... whatever but I choose to do something like this, the cost of that time is effectively zero because that's what I would have been doing with it otherwise. So, by "working" at something I enjoy and that I'm doing by choice, I'm basically being paid to entertain myself.
imgabe 7y ago
Many people are salaried and won't get paid any additional money for working more hours at their job.
mikekchar 7y ago
However, there is a real difference how much you have spent in labour vs how much you have spent in capital. Although time is arguably more valuable than capital as a human, capital is often harder to come by. Whenever I read "I did X with only $Y", I don't think it actually cost $Y when taking into account labour and other externalities. I think it cost $Y of capital and that is a viable thing to talk about. Even in startups you hear that someone gets $1 million in seed money and works for a year receiving almost no salary -- just enough for a bed in a closet and ramen 3x a day. It's basically the same thing.

jontas 7y ago

If you read the original post (linked from this one) he explains that his goals were to learn new skills and keep his existing programming ability sharp. He has a full time job paying the bills and this was a labor of love. Given that context I think any paying customers / level of profitability is a success. Yes, you can do lots of math about cost of time and opportunity cost but that ignores the original intent behind the project. I played around with the tool a bit and it's actually pretty impressive--really solid for for a one person team and I wouldn't be surprised if it gains more users.

thomasthelliez 7y ago
Thank you Jontas for reading my previous article. What Success is may vary from one person to another. For me, this project is clearly a success but I understand if others do not feel that way.

nexuist 7y ago

Do things that don't scale [1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html

thomasthelliez 7y ago

Yes, I invested time but I took a tremendous amount of pleasure building it and I learned a lot in the process. Even if I made no money as a result, I think I would still have considered the project a success. Success because I am proud of what I did and it brings me happiness anyway just to have users (even free one)

skmurphy 7y ago
What would have been a stopping rule or failure condition that would have led you to abandon this approach? You have to distinguish between a hobby that brings you pleasure and the beginning of a business that will earn a profit if you valued your time at its opportunity cost.

flukus 7y ago

If they spent $$$ on gaining those customers instead they'd still have to spend time researching and monitoring where and how to spend those $$$ and that could easily require the same time investment. Few things are as simple as exchanging money to save time and most of those are already normalized.