4 ms·

Maybe because roads are designed without cyclists in mind, so sometimes you’re forced to be a car, and sometimes you’re forced to be a pedestrian. I bike. Not

Maybe because roads are designed without cyclists in mind, so sometimes you’re forced to be a car, and sometimes you’re forced to be a pedestrian. I bike. Not every day, but enough. I obey lights, I signal, I don’t do anything overtly stupid. At the end of the day, I weigh maybe 170 and I’m moving next to objects that weigh maybe one to two tons moving anywhere from five to 45 miles per hour. In any bad interaction, I’m the one who’s probably ending up dead. So I’m really sick and tired of this goddamn bickering back and forth. Everyone should follow laws, yes, but roads should be designed to be not deadly for cyclists, and drivers (which includes me) should understand that they’re moving a very heavy object very quickly, and the onus is on them to do it safely. If that’s not possible, maybe fewer people should be allowed to drive.

davidw 7y ago
Right - when's the last time you saw a cyclist t-bone a minivan and kill a family?
MisterOctober 7y ago
Yep. I stay on the road and act like a "vehicle" whenever I feel like it's reasonably prudent, but many streets / blocks in phoenix are straight up suicide for a solo cyclist -- no bike lane, motorists not looking, fast and heavy traffic -- so I end up on the sidewalk probably 20% of the time. [Biking with a group, it's not so bad because you're much more likely to get seen / not run off road or cut off] 'Course, in Phoenix, there are verrrry few pedestrians and so colliding with them is not very likely provided one goes at a sane speed and uses bell / voice to alert folk you're behind them, but still, it'd be nice to not be more or less compelled to encroach on pedestrian space while cycling.
saiya-jin 7y ago
Cyclists don't belong on usual car roads, not the usual roads that aren't wide enough so car can pass the bike safely without crossing the center line. The problem is, to all other motorized traffic, bikes are not part of the traffic but an obstacle that has to be avoided, usually in very limited space with a lot of things happening all around you. Many cyclists unfortunately don't ride with that in mind (changing lanes without looking back, 2 cyclists riding next to each other etc.). It doesn't matter if you are a pedestrian walking 5kmh or biker going 30kmh, when cars drive 50/60 kmh. Not even going into topic of roads outside of cities, those fools riding in 90kmh traffic when there is 0 extra space on the side of the roads are basically asking to be killed by somebody not momentarily paying enough attention to the road. Even if 99.9% of the drivers do drive carefully, that 1 out of thousands drivers can become a real event pretty quickly on popular roads. Emergencies and morgues have visitors because of these. Now how to achieve a good situation for everybody in Dutch/Danish style is a great question, especially in congested centers of the towns that are already designed and there is often no extra room for dedicated bike lanes. I don't claim I know the proper answer that would be OK with majority of the population of average western country. Even a narrow yellow bike lane on the side of the road would be great but I don't see them as often as I should, meaning there are not enough continuous bike paths that take you to most part of the cities. At least not around the place I live.
djohnston 7y ago
I am all for fewer people driving. I also agree that US cycling infra needs to be drastically improved and that would save a lot of lives and frustration. I hadn't considered the poor state of infra.

davidw 7y ago

Right - when's the last time you saw a cyclist t-bone a minivan and kill a family?

MisterOctober 7y ago

Yep. I stay on the road and act like a "vehicle" whenever I feel like it's reasonably prudent, but many streets / blocks in phoenix are straight up suicide for a solo cyclist -- no bike lane, motorists not looking, fast and heavy traffic -- so I end up on the sidewalk probably 20% of the time. [Biking with a group, it's not so bad because you're much more likely to get seen / not run off road or cut off] 'Course, in Phoenix, there are verrrry few pedestrians and so colliding with them is not very likely provided one goes at a sane speed and uses bell / voice to alert folk you're behind them, but still, it'd be nice to not be more or less compelled to encroach on pedestrian space while cycling.

saiya-jin 7y ago

Cyclists don't belong on usual car roads, not the usual roads that aren't wide enough so car can pass the bike safely without crossing the center line. The problem is, to all other motorized traffic, bikes are not part of the traffic but an obstacle that has to be avoided, usually in very limited space with a lot of things happening all around you. Many cyclists unfortunately don't ride with that in mind (changing lanes without looking back, 2 cyclists riding next to each other etc.). It doesn't matter if you are a pedestrian walking 5kmh or biker going 30kmh, when cars drive 50/60 kmh. Not even going into topic of roads outside of cities, those fools riding in 90kmh traffic when there is 0 extra space on the side of the roads are basically asking to be killed by somebody not momentarily paying enough attention to the road. Even if 99.9% of the drivers do drive carefully, that 1 out of thousands drivers can become a real event pretty quickly on popular roads. Emergencies and morgues have visitors because of these. Now how to achieve a good situation for everybody in Dutch/Danish style is a great question, especially in congested centers of the towns that are already designed and there is often no extra room for dedicated bike lanes. I don't claim I know the proper answer that would be OK with majority of the population of average western country. Even a narrow yellow bike lane on the side of the road would be great but I don't see them as often as I should, meaning there are not enough continuous bike paths that take you to most part of the cities. At least not around the place I live.

djohnston 7y ago

I am all for fewer people driving. I also agree that US cycling infra needs to be drastically improved and that would save a lot of lives and frustration. I hadn't considered the poor state of infra.