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Interesting- I always thought the cyberpunk future of self-policed corporate-states would be here eventually, but I didn't think firefighters would be privatize

Interesting- I always thought the cyberpunk future of self-policed corporate-states would be here eventually, but I didn't think firefighters would be privatized in that manner before police.

ceejayoz 7y ago
Private firefighting dates back to ancient Rome. > The first ever Roman fire brigade was created by Marcus Licinius Crassus. He took advantage of the fact that Rome had no fire department, by creating his own brigade—500 men strong—which rushed to burning buildings at the first cry of alarm. Upon arriving at the scene, however, the fire fighters did nothing while Crassus offered to buy the burning building from the distressed property owner, at a miserable price. If the owner agreed to sell the property, his men would put out the fire, if the owner refused, then they would simply let the structure burn to the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_firefighting#Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_firefighting#Rome
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Nasrudith 7y ago
I think that firefighers may have technically privatised before hand for resource extraction applications just because they don't like to burn money and the infastructure is generally further away. And well naval damage control is technically a subset of firefighting as well. Of course that isn't quite comparable as it is the opposite of dystopian - simply doing what is neccessary when help is far away.
heartbreak 7y ago
Wealthy neighborhoods with private security (aka private police) are definitely a thing.
- Shivetya 7y ago
  The private security in wealthy neighborhoods is little different that the security and protected entrances of the condos from the big city.
- TheCraiggers 7y ago
  There is a difference. These private security firms don't have all the power the police do. They don't have the power to arrest, don't have their own jails, etc.
turk73 7y ago
The problem with municipal firefighters and police is that they are unionized and are self-interested parties. For instance, police unions always complain they don't have enough personnel and need more for reasons x, y, z, and the public usually buys that line and so we continuously are building a police state of mega proportions. These entities are helping to foment a pension crisis in every town, city, and county. It will break out into the open eventually as property and sales taxes rise to ridiculous levels. Everyone thinks private police and firefighters are some kind of abomination, but I say that there is no perfect solution. I don't think massively expensive public services are cost effective although they do serve the public at large without discrimination (some members of the public are much more frequent fliers than others, of course). Private ambulance services now abound and are quite successful at controlling costs (because they don't pay the EMTs who staff them very well). We need policing of some kind, we need fire and ambulance coverage of some kind. It should not be illegal to hire mercenary detectives or firefighters, it's a supposedly free country. What we don't want happening is deep pockets hiring police to enforce their own "laws" as took place in the 19th century with the notorious Pinkertons, who were little more than thugs that would come in and break up protests or unionization attempts. It was all very dirty business. The firefighters in NYC were basically little more than gangs for most of their existence. A fire would break out, the firefighters would come and fight over who was going to put it out, and meanwhile they would immediately condemn the structure so that anything of value inside could be pilfered. That history is why we have better control over our public services in the first place--cops and firefighters were just thugs with their own agendas for most of US history. These days they don't outright rob regular people, but they certainly do act as enforcers or "King's Men" in most jurisdictions and are not fully accountable to the public. Somehow firefighters are more beknighted, but behind the scenes, there is much dirt there, too. Dirty politics, nepotism, poor ethics.
refurb 7y ago
You just fell hook-line-and-sinker for that clickbait headline.
- TheCraiggers 7y ago
  How so? I do see where it talks about only doing preventative measures when working for insurance, but it also implies that not all their work is for insurance companies. One of the links to the LA times even talks about a homeowner hiring a private fire fighter to save their home, and these instances involve actually fighting fires, not just clearing brush.
Merrill 7y ago
Haven't looked recently, but in the early '90s there were about twice as many private guard service employees than there were sworn law enforcement officers. The ratio has gone down to about 1.4, probably because rich people and businesses have moved to municipalities that provide excellent police services. There was a thread last week on what are good business areas to get into, and providing security to rich people is quite promising.

Interesting- I always thought the cyberpunk future of self-policed corporate-states would be here eventually, but I didn't think firefighters would be privatized in that manner before police.

ceejayoz 7y ago

Private firefighting dates back to ancient Rome. > The first ever Roman fire brigade was created by Marcus Licinius Crassus. He took advantage of the fact that Rome had no fire department, by creating his own brigade—500 men strong—which rushed to burning buildings at the first cry of alarm. Upon arriving at the scene, however, the fire fighters did nothing while Crassus offered to buy the burning building from the distressed property owner, at a miserable price. If the owner agreed to sell the property, his men would put out the fire, if the owner refused, then they would simply let the structure burn to the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_firefighting#Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_firefighting#Rome

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Nasrudith 7y ago

I think that firefighers may have technically privatised before hand for resource extraction applications just because they don't like to burn money and the infastructure is generally further away. And well naval damage control is technically a subset of firefighting as well. Of course that isn't quite comparable as it is the opposite of dystopian - simply doing what is neccessary when help is far away.

heartbreak 7y ago

Wealthy neighborhoods with private security (aka private police) are definitely a thing.

Shivetya 7y ago
The private security in wealthy neighborhoods is little different that the security and protected entrances of the condos from the big city.
TheCraiggers 7y ago
There is a difference. These private security firms don't have all the power the police do. They don't have the power to arrest, don't have their own jails, etc.

turk73 7y ago

The problem with municipal firefighters and police is that they are unionized and are self-interested parties. For instance, police unions always complain they don't have enough personnel and need more for reasons x, y, z, and the public usually buys that line and so we continuously are building a police state of mega proportions. These entities are helping to foment a pension crisis in every town, city, and county. It will break out into the open eventually as property and sales taxes rise to ridiculous levels. Everyone thinks private police and firefighters are some kind of abomination, but I say that there is no perfect solution. I don't think massively expensive public services are cost effective although they do serve the public at large without discrimination (some members of the public are much more frequent fliers than others, of course). Private ambulance services now abound and are quite successful at controlling costs (because they don't pay the EMTs who staff them very well). We need policing of some kind, we need fire and ambulance coverage of some kind. It should not be illegal to hire mercenary detectives or firefighters, it's a supposedly free country. What we don't want happening is deep pockets hiring police to enforce their own "laws" as took place in the 19th century with the notorious Pinkertons, who were little more than thugs that would come in and break up protests or unionization attempts. It was all very dirty business. The firefighters in NYC were basically little more than gangs for most of their existence. A fire would break out, the firefighters would come and fight over who was going to put it out, and meanwhile they would immediately condemn the structure so that anything of value inside could be pilfered. That history is why we have better control over our public services in the first place--cops and firefighters were just thugs with their own agendas for most of US history. These days they don't outright rob regular people, but they certainly do act as enforcers or "King's Men" in most jurisdictions and are not fully accountable to the public. Somehow firefighters are more beknighted, but behind the scenes, there is much dirt there, too. Dirty politics, nepotism, poor ethics.

refurb 7y ago

You just fell hook-line-and-sinker for that clickbait headline.

TheCraiggers 7y ago
How so? I do see where it talks about only doing preventative measures when working for insurance, but it also implies that not all their work is for insurance companies. One of the links to the LA times even talks about a homeowner hiring a private fire fighter to save their home, and these instances involve actually fighting fires, not just clearing brush.

Merrill 7y ago

Haven't looked recently, but in the early '90s there were about twice as many private guard service employees than there were sworn law enforcement officers. The ratio has gone down to about 1.4, probably because rich people and businesses have moved to municipalities that provide excellent police services. There was a thread last week on what are good business areas to get into, and providing security to rich people is quite promising.