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Shouldn't it be everyone's responsibility to behave ethically? I don't understand the way you have divided responsibility between "workers" and the "business".

FussyZeus 7y ago
Of course workers have a responsibility to behave ethically, but they shouldn't have the sole responsibility to make sure the business itself is behaving ethically. Architects don't need to consider the ethics of designing buildings up to structural code, because regulations (building codes) demand it. They don't have to worry about their bosses pushing them to design cheaper buildings that don't meet those standards, because the bosses know they will never be approved for use by their customer. Sure, an architect could enforce this himself or herself, but why should they? We as a society have already decided that we want buildings that are safe to occupy, and have mandated standards accordingly. It's now a LOT less profitable to make cheap buildings that won't meet code, because if the buildings can't be occupied after, then the builder doesn't get their money. This is not to say building codes are never skirted, but it's a lot rarer than, for example, a Silicon Valley firm trampling privacy which is completely expected at this point, despite wide and vocal opposition.
- gwright 7y ago
  I don't think anyone said they have a "sole responsibility". I was just trying to keep the discussion focused on people and not abstract entities like "management" or "the business". I don't really understand your architectural example though. The presence or absence of regulations doesn't change the fact that an architect should follow an ethical course of action and design a safe building. Regulations or standards may help to be more successful at that goal but they don't add or remove the responsibility.
eli_gottlieb 7y ago
Workers get fired if they don't obey the mandates of the business.
- gwright 7y ago
  No one said acting ethically is easy. You can try to change things from within or report the issue to a legal authority if the situation is also a legal problem, or leave and take action from outside if appropriate. You have choices, they may not be comfortable choices, but they are there.
  - eli_gottlieb 7y ago
    Acting ethically doesn't consist of washing my hands of evil by removing myself from situations in which I would be complicit. It consists in preventing evil from occurring at all. Hence, whether I'm personally involved doesn't really matter.

FussyZeus 7y ago

Of course workers have a responsibility to behave ethically, but they shouldn't have the sole responsibility to make sure the business itself is behaving ethically. Architects don't need to consider the ethics of designing buildings up to structural code, because regulations (building codes) demand it. They don't have to worry about their bosses pushing them to design cheaper buildings that don't meet those standards, because the bosses know they will never be approved for use by their customer. Sure, an architect could enforce this himself or herself, but why should they? We as a society have already decided that we want buildings that are safe to occupy, and have mandated standards accordingly. It's now a LOT less profitable to make cheap buildings that won't meet code, because if the buildings can't be occupied after, then the builder doesn't get their money. This is not to say building codes are never skirted, but it's a lot rarer than, for example, a Silicon Valley firm trampling privacy which is completely expected at this point, despite wide and vocal opposition.

gwright 7y ago
I don't think anyone said they have a "sole responsibility". I was just trying to keep the discussion focused on people and not abstract entities like "management" or "the business". I don't really understand your architectural example though. The presence or absence of regulations doesn't change the fact that an architect should follow an ethical course of action and design a safe building. Regulations or standards may help to be more successful at that goal but they don't add or remove the responsibility.

eli_gottlieb 7y ago

Workers get fired if they don't obey the mandates of the business.

gwright 7y ago
No one said acting ethically is easy. You can try to change things from within or report the issue to a legal authority if the situation is also a legal problem, or leave and take action from outside if appropriate. You have choices, they may not be comfortable choices, but they are there.
- eli_gottlieb 7y ago
  Acting ethically doesn't consist of washing my hands of evil by removing myself from situations in which I would be complicit. It consists in preventing evil from occurring at all. Hence, whether I'm personally involved doesn't really matter.