43 ms·

> Why are the companies selling their products not accountable for the lifetime of their products? This gets back to my original point: why are they to blame f

> Why are the companies selling their products not accountable for the lifetime of their products? This gets back to my original point: why are they to blame for it? I'm willing to hear an argument for why they are, but neither the original article nor your comment provides one. As far as I understand things, the majority of plastic pollution comes from poor waste management practices. With good waste management practices, there aren't any issues with plastic pollution. If this is true, then why should the companies who make the products be at fault? The waste management practices are the responsibility of parties such as governments.

mrpopo 7y ago
> The waste management practices are the responsibility of parties such as governments. Coca-Cola manufactures billions of plastic bottles a year. Governments don't create waste. If you think waste management would solve it, why isn't Coca-Cola contributing to waste management? This is a direct government subsidy. Our taxes are funding waste management services for a problem that Coca-Cola and others create. I don't drink Coca-Cola, yet my taxes pay for waste management services and litter pick-up operations from my city council. It would be more fair if that price was shifted to the company.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  This entire thread hinges on the issue of, Why is the company producing the product responsible for that product ending up as pollution? I pointed out that the initial article did not provide any arguments for why the company should be held responsible. They just assumed it. And all of your comments just assume it. I've explained why it doesn't seem that way to me. Give me a reason and then we can discuss that reason. > why isn't Coca-Cola contributing to waste management? What is the reason that they should? > a problem that Coca-Cola and others create. What is the argument for that company creating the problem? You haven't addressed what I've said regarding this. > It would be more fair if that price was shifted to the company. Why? You also seem to be implying that good waste management practices are somehow only needed because of there being so much plastic. We need good practices whether or not Coca-Cola exists.
  - clay_the_ripper 7y ago
    You seem to be searching for an empiracle argument that is devoid of all context and I’m not sure you’re going to get it. Simply look at the situation and see if it passes a basic common sense test: Coke produces billions of plastic bottles, many of which end up as pollution. Coke produces billions of dollars of profits, none of which goes to preventing those plastic bottles from ending up as waste. Coke’s company operators and shareholders make billions of dollars, of which none (or a negligible amount) of which goes to preventing said waste. We all live in a world that is littered with plastic waste, which causes health problems and other horrible ecological problems, even if we don’t buy coke products. Coke is directly responsible for creating a huge amount of this waste. They are not the only producer but they are the biggest and the biggest ones get held accountable for things. This is the way of the world in which human beings make emotionally bisased decisions. Does this sound fair to you?
    - jamesrcole 7y ago
      I've already addressed that -- as I said in one of the ancestor comments to this one, "As far as I understand things, the majority of plastic pollution comes from poor waste management practices. With good waste management practices, there aren't any issues with plastic pollution. If this is true, then why should the companies who make the products be at fault? The waste management practices are the responsibility of parties such as governments." To clarify that a bit, my understanding is that it comes from those countries that have poor waste management practices, and that many countries already have reasonably good practices. I also saw an article recently claiming that the majority of ocean waste comes from ships disposing of their waste at sea. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21135259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21135259
mrpopo 7y ago
> why are they to blame for it? Because they are manufacturing it.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  That is a very weak argument, because it's not providing any explanation of why. It's just asserting that the reason is X, and this is very easy to do: Why are they to blame for diabetes? Because they are manufacturing the product. Why are they to blame for tooth decay? Because they are manufacturing the product. Why are car makers to blame for road deaths? Because they make the cars. etc etc. It's so easy to trot out such near-slogans. I am NOT saying you can't make an argument for these parties to having the blame, however such simple "because they make it" doesn't cut it. It requres a more substantial argument.

mrpopo 7y ago

> The waste management practices are the responsibility of parties such as governments. Coca-Cola manufactures billions of plastic bottles a year. Governments don't create waste. If you think waste management would solve it, why isn't Coca-Cola contributing to waste management? This is a direct government subsidy. Our taxes are funding waste management services for a problem that Coca-Cola and others create. I don't drink Coca-Cola, yet my taxes pay for waste management services and litter pick-up operations from my city council. It would be more fair if that price was shifted to the company.

jamesrcole 7y ago
This entire thread hinges on the issue of, Why is the company producing the product responsible for that product ending up as pollution? I pointed out that the initial article did not provide any arguments for why the company should be held responsible. They just assumed it. And all of your comments just assume it. I've explained why it doesn't seem that way to me. Give me a reason and then we can discuss that reason. > why isn't Coca-Cola contributing to waste management? What is the reason that they should? > a problem that Coca-Cola and others create. What is the argument for that company creating the problem? You haven't addressed what I've said regarding this. > It would be more fair if that price was shifted to the company. Why? You also seem to be implying that good waste management practices are somehow only needed because of there being so much plastic. We need good practices whether or not Coca-Cola exists.
- clay_the_ripper 7y ago
  You seem to be searching for an empiracle argument that is devoid of all context and I’m not sure you’re going to get it. Simply look at the situation and see if it passes a basic common sense test: Coke produces billions of plastic bottles, many of which end up as pollution. Coke produces billions of dollars of profits, none of which goes to preventing those plastic bottles from ending up as waste. Coke’s company operators and shareholders make billions of dollars, of which none (or a negligible amount) of which goes to preventing said waste. We all live in a world that is littered with plastic waste, which causes health problems and other horrible ecological problems, even if we don’t buy coke products. Coke is directly responsible for creating a huge amount of this waste. They are not the only producer but they are the biggest and the biggest ones get held accountable for things. This is the way of the world in which human beings make emotionally bisased decisions. Does this sound fair to you?
  - jamesrcole 7y ago
    I've already addressed that -- as I said in one of the ancestor comments to this one, "As far as I understand things, the majority of plastic pollution comes from poor waste management practices. With good waste management practices, there aren't any issues with plastic pollution. If this is true, then why should the companies who make the products be at fault? The waste management practices are the responsibility of parties such as governments." To clarify that a bit, my understanding is that it comes from those countries that have poor waste management practices, and that many countries already have reasonably good practices. I also saw an article recently claiming that the majority of ocean waste comes from ships disposing of their waste at sea. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21135259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21135259

mrpopo 7y ago

> why are they to blame for it? Because they are manufacturing it.

jamesrcole 7y ago
That is a very weak argument, because it's not providing any explanation of why. It's just asserting that the reason is X, and this is very easy to do: Why are they to blame for diabetes? Because they are manufacturing the product. Why are they to blame for tooth decay? Because they are manufacturing the product. Why are car makers to blame for road deaths? Because they make the cars. etc etc. It's so easy to trot out such near-slogans. I am NOT saying you can't make an argument for these parties to having the blame, however such simple "because they make it" doesn't cut it. It requres a more substantial argument.