3 ms·

That's 3 assertions without evidence/reasoning, and then a stated preferred course-of-action. Here's the same in the opposite direction: "Lots of tipping syste

by gojomo 7y ago

That's 3 assertions without evidence/reasoning, and then a stated preferred course-of-action. Here's the same in the opposite direction: "Lots of tipping systems make sense. It's a good social construct, and beneficial from every angle. Let's expand it." Both formulations are just longwinded ways to say "I dislike tipping" or "I like tipping", without adding anything for people trying to form an opinion on the merits.

kittiepryde 7y ago
I'm having a hard time finding it now. I've seen a graph before that showed that as tip percentage has increased over the decades, the pay the restaurant gives to the workers has gone down. Tipping more in effect hasn't rewarded the workers, it's rewarded the restaurant.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Here is a longer form of argument from another person. Tipping shifts the burden of paying staff from the employer who already derive most of the benefit from the staffs work to the patron who is pressured to pay a large bill than presented to make up for how shoddy the employer pays. For the most effective and the most attractive wait staff especially white females in the most lucrative or the most inebriated environments they actually may make more than they would if paid a flat rate by their employers. For the majority they are probably paid less. It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. It replaces a negotiated predictable bargain struck after due consideration between adults with the whims of the odious masses who get to decide if their server gets paid based on whether she has sufficiently kissed their overly broad asses. In some states they allow the servers to be paid less than minimum wage so long as they "tip out" which is to say they earned enough tips to ensure they earned between both sources the federal or state minimum. Requesting the employer to make up the difference between tips and minimum even on a slow shift without enough business is a sure route to termination so staff are strongly encouraged to help their employers break the law and ultimately steal from them. There are so many downsides and so few upsides and the upsides accrue nearly entirely to employers and a fraction of servers its hard to imagine anyone seriously arguing in favor of tipping.
- phonypc 7y ago
  >It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. Also from the back-of-house staff, who are rarely tipped fairly and often not at all, despite arguably having an equal or greater role in providing a good experience at a restaurant.
  - glofish 7y ago
    but what if those people are already paid well? not that I know, but it is so easy to be an armchair general, that has all kinds of opinions on how to run a restaurant
    - phonypc 7y ago
      Speaking from experience, they're not. Back-of-house tends to get a slightly higher wage, but end up making less than servers factoring in tips. Sometimes a lot less.
- glofish 7y ago
  How does tipping a pretty girl become as you say "a tax collected from black, ugly or fat girls"? If you said there is an "unfair" advantage I get that (not that I agree but at least I understand). What I don't get, how is it a tax? While we are at it, are you saying there should not be jobs where pretty people make more than ugly people?
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    It's a systemic disadvantage made worse by the tipping system that is uniquely shitty. Raise the minimum wage, disallow paying tipped employees less than the minimum and legally require all staff to share a tip pool. Slightly higher prices will pay for higher wages and smart money will in any modest market advertise higher prices and no tips required simultaneously.
    - glofish 7y ago
stouset 7y ago
Except for the fact that virtually all of the available experiential data supports GP's take, and not yours.

by gojomo 7y ago

kittiepryde 7y ago

I'm having a hard time finding it now. I've seen a graph before that showed that as tip percentage has increased over the decades, the pay the restaurant gives to the workers has gone down. Tipping more in effect hasn't rewarded the workers, it's rewarded the restaurant.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Here is a longer form of argument from another person. Tipping shifts the burden of paying staff from the employer who already derive most of the benefit from the staffs work to the patron who is pressured to pay a large bill than presented to make up for how shoddy the employer pays. For the most effective and the most attractive wait staff especially white females in the most lucrative or the most inebriated environments they actually may make more than they would if paid a flat rate by their employers. For the majority they are probably paid less. It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. It replaces a negotiated predictable bargain struck after due consideration between adults with the whims of the odious masses who get to decide if their server gets paid based on whether she has sufficiently kissed their overly broad asses. In some states they allow the servers to be paid less than minimum wage so long as they "tip out" which is to say they earned enough tips to ensure they earned between both sources the federal or state minimum. Requesting the employer to make up the difference between tips and minimum even on a slow shift without enough business is a sure route to termination so staff are strongly encouraged to help their employers break the law and ultimately steal from them. There are so many downsides and so few upsides and the upsides accrue nearly entirely to employers and a fraction of servers its hard to imagine anyone seriously arguing in favor of tipping.

phonypc 7y ago
>It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. Also from the back-of-house staff, who are rarely tipped fairly and often not at all, despite arguably having an equal or greater role in providing a good experience at a restaurant.
- glofish 7y ago
  but what if those people are already paid well? not that I know, but it is so easy to be an armchair general, that has all kinds of opinions on how to run a restaurant
  - phonypc 7y ago
    Speaking from experience, they're not. Back-of-house tends to get a slightly higher wage, but end up making less than servers factoring in tips. Sometimes a lot less.
glofish 7y ago
How does tipping a pretty girl become as you say "a tax collected from black, ugly or fat girls"? If you said there is an "unfair" advantage I get that (not that I agree but at least I understand). What I don't get, how is it a tax? While we are at it, are you saying there should not be jobs where pretty people make more than ugly people?
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  It's a systemic disadvantage made worse by the tipping system that is uniquely shitty. Raise the minimum wage, disallow paying tipped employees less than the minimum and legally require all staff to share a tip pool. Slightly higher prices will pay for higher wages and smart money will in any modest market advertise higher prices and no tips required simultaneously.
  - glofish 7y ago

stouset 7y ago

Except for the fact that virtually all of the available experiential data supports GP's take, and not yours.