5 ms·

There is no system for tipping that makes sense. It's a bad social construct, just plain harmful from every angle. Let's abolish it.

weberc2 7y ago
I’m fine with the notion of tipping as a reward for extraordinary service, but it absolutely shouldn’t be part of a standard compensation package and especially not considered as part of a minimum wage requirement.
- glofish 7y ago
  A well-intentioned misconception at work here. Really ... in what other circumstance would you ever reward an "extraordinary" accomplishment with a mere 15-20% bonus. What extraordinary thing costs just 15% more than the regular, run of the mill normal thing.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    You might be right, and I think it makes for interesting introspection. For me, it’s not necessarily a policy grounded in rigorous economic philosophy. Rather, someone—a person with thoughts and feelings—just went the extra mile to serve me and give me a pleasant experience, and I want to give them a token of appreciation in return. It’s participation in humanity for me, rightly or wrongly. Maybe I would also tip the software engineer (who went above and beyond to ensure the product I bought was well-crafted) if only I had some direct contact with him or her?
gojomo 7y ago
That's 3 assertions without evidence/reasoning, and then a stated preferred course-of-action. Here's the same in the opposite direction: "Lots of tipping systems make sense. It's a good social construct, and beneficial from every angle. Let's expand it." Both formulations are just longwinded ways to say "I dislike tipping" or "I like tipping", without adding anything for people trying to form an opinion on the merits.
- kittiepryde 7y ago
  I'm having a hard time finding it now. I've seen a graph before that showed that as tip percentage has increased over the decades, the pay the restaurant gives to the workers has gone down. Tipping more in effect hasn't rewarded the workers, it's rewarded the restaurant.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  Here is a longer form of argument from another person. Tipping shifts the burden of paying staff from the employer who already derive most of the benefit from the staffs work to the patron who is pressured to pay a large bill than presented to make up for how shoddy the employer pays. For the most effective and the most attractive wait staff especially white females in the most lucrative or the most inebriated environments they actually may make more than they would if paid a flat rate by their employers. For the majority they are probably paid less. It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. It replaces a negotiated predictable bargain struck after due consideration between adults with the whims of the odious masses who get to decide if their server gets paid based on whether she has sufficiently kissed their overly broad asses. In some states they allow the servers to be paid less than minimum wage so long as they "tip out" which is to say they earned enough tips to ensure they earned between both sources the federal or state minimum. Requesting the employer to make up the difference between tips and minimum even on a slow shift without enough business is a sure route to termination so staff are strongly encouraged to help their employers break the law and ultimately steal from them. There are so many downsides and so few upsides and the upsides accrue nearly entirely to employers and a fraction of servers its hard to imagine anyone seriously arguing in favor of tipping.
  - phonypc 7y ago
    >It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. Also from the back-of-house staff, who are rarely tipped fairly and often not at all, despite arguably having an equal or greater role in providing a good experience at a restaurant.

weberc2 7y ago

I’m fine with the notion of tipping as a reward for extraordinary service, but it absolutely shouldn’t be part of a standard compensation package and especially not considered as part of a minimum wage requirement.

glofish 7y ago
A well-intentioned misconception at work here. Really ... in what other circumstance would you ever reward an "extraordinary" accomplishment with a mere 15-20% bonus. What extraordinary thing costs just 15% more than the regular, run of the mill normal thing.
- weberc2 7y ago
  You might be right, and I think it makes for interesting introspection. For me, it’s not necessarily a policy grounded in rigorous economic philosophy. Rather, someone—a person with thoughts and feelings—just went the extra mile to serve me and give me a pleasant experience, and I want to give them a token of appreciation in return. It’s participation in humanity for me, rightly or wrongly. Maybe I would also tip the software engineer (who went above and beyond to ensure the product I bought was well-crafted) if only I had some direct contact with him or her?

gojomo 7y ago

That's 3 assertions without evidence/reasoning, and then a stated preferred course-of-action. Here's the same in the opposite direction: "Lots of tipping systems make sense. It's a good social construct, and beneficial from every angle. Let's expand it." Both formulations are just longwinded ways to say "I dislike tipping" or "I like tipping", without adding anything for people trying to form an opinion on the merits.

kittiepryde 7y ago
I'm having a hard time finding it now. I've seen a graph before that showed that as tip percentage has increased over the decades, the pay the restaurant gives to the workers has gone down. Tipping more in effect hasn't rewarded the workers, it's rewarded the restaurant.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Here is a longer form of argument from another person. Tipping shifts the burden of paying staff from the employer who already derive most of the benefit from the staffs work to the patron who is pressured to pay a large bill than presented to make up for how shoddy the employer pays. For the most effective and the most attractive wait staff especially white females in the most lucrative or the most inebriated environments they actually may make more than they would if paid a flat rate by their employers. For the majority they are probably paid less. It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. It replaces a negotiated predictable bargain struck after due consideration between adults with the whims of the odious masses who get to decide if their server gets paid based on whether she has sufficiently kissed their overly broad asses. In some states they allow the servers to be paid less than minimum wage so long as they "tip out" which is to say they earned enough tips to ensure they earned between both sources the federal or state minimum. Requesting the employer to make up the difference between tips and minimum even on a slow shift without enough business is a sure route to termination so staff are strongly encouraged to help their employers break the law and ultimately steal from them. There are so many downsides and so few upsides and the upsides accrue nearly entirely to employers and a fraction of servers its hard to imagine anyone seriously arguing in favor of tipping.
- phonypc 7y ago
  >It's like a tax collected from black, ugly, or fat girls and given to 20 something females with nice boobs. Also from the back-of-house staff, who are rarely tipped fairly and often not at all, despite arguably having an equal or greater role in providing a good experience at a restaurant.