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This article is an interesting example of using careful wording to paint one side as maximally sympathetic and the other as maximally unsympathetic. It's the ki

by knzhou 7y ago

This article is an interesting example of using careful wording to paint one side as maximally sympathetic and the other as maximally unsympathetic. It's the kind of thing that should be read in high school classes to help train critical thinking. In the beginning, there is not much information, but an extraordinary amount of editorialization, where neutral things get adjectives slapped onto them to make the reader know what side they're supposed to be on. I went through and collated them: > dutiful compliance occupying communities mostly white deeply unusual isolated campus imperial fashion latest conquest snatched up alarming sinister in its own image manipulation tiny technotopia In the middle, there's the classic catch-22. Facebook is causing gentrification and "displacing families" when its employees move into poor communities. But when its employees choose to move in elsewhere, it is an "isolated" "tiny techtopia" that is "excluding the communities from their wealth". As usual you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Later, it finally concedes that bikes actually are constantly stolen from Facebook, which is the whole point of its actions in the first place, but goes to great lengths to avoid calling it stealing: > "You have an extremely poor community that is being flooded with toys of wealth, and these things are going to happen" > "teens in low-income areas [...] should not be detained or ticketed for, say, using a Facebook bicycle to get to school" > "[parents should not have to worry] about their kids having a bad interaction with the police over a stupid bike" I live in Menlo Park (though not a tech employee) and almost had my bike stolen last week. I would be pissed off if the police caught the thief and let them off because it's "a stupid bike". It's how I commute, I can't function without it, and I can't just buy another one. In the end I can't find any reason to be upset -- I don't think there's a difference between ~10,000 Menlo Park residents independently complaining to the police about theft, and Facebook (who hires ~10,000 Menlo Park residents) merely collating them. Facebook isn't getting a say in Menlo Park affairs because it's a big corporation, it's because its employees make up a significant share of the population. That is fair.

RaiseProfits 7y ago
Welcome to corporate media where spin IS the substance! At least it’s not “terrorism”, “democracy”, “national security”, or “freedom” related. Why can’t Facebook keep track of its own bikes? Cops don’t scale like gps does.
- knzhou 7y ago
  I also object to associating everything bad with "corporations". This particular article is almost falling over with spin because its single author wrote it that way. > Why can’t Facebook keep track of its own bikes? Cops don’t scale like gps does. Things don't magically become easier because you're part of a corporation. Try replacing the word "Facebook" with "10,000 Menlo Park residents", does it still sound obvious how to prevent bike theft? I sure hope when my bike does eventually get stolen, you won't tell me the same thing.
bsanr 7y ago
>This article is an interesting example of using careful wording to paint one side as maximally sympathetic and the other as maximally unsympathetic. It's the kind of thing that should be read in high school classes to help train critical thinking. It's also interesting that your thesis applies to your own comment.
- knzhou 7y ago
  In the first 2/3 I just list a representative selection of direct quotes. In the last 1/3 I give my opinion and make it clear that it is my personal opinion. That's how journalism should work, my whole point is that it's not how this article works.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    What you're doing is the equivilent of a journalist taking selective quotes out of context in attempt to divert discussion from the actual topic at hand. What you're doing isn't 'journalism', it's diversion. You've managed to bury the lede in your argument by trying to make it about a personal affair ('i would be pissed if my bike was stolen') while ignoring the issues the article brings up related to police racially profiling people (because they believe the minorities are more likely to steal) along with Facebook encouraging a stringent crackdown on people in the area by abusing its size. Do people steal bikes from Facebook? Yes. But you've managed to miss the entire point of the article, which is the racial profiling of people and children over bicycles. Some of these bikes might not even be stolen, just abandoned by Facebook employees treating them as disposable. And regardless, you're treating a multi-billion dollar corporation threatening residents over something that's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of costs to them as being acceptable.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  It doesn't. It's a exceptionally well thought out comment that provides direct reasoning and examples. If you think it does, then why dont you articulate why?
- SheinhardtWigCo 7y ago
  Care to elaborate? I see fair criticism being leveled at a trash article. Their comment is much more thoughtful and substantial than yours.
Spooky23 7y ago
There’s an audience for what i call “poverty porn” that attributes a condescending nobility to poverty. End of the day, people are stealing bikes.
- manicdee 7y ago
  End of the day, they’re stealing bread. Sending them to a prison colony on the other side of the planet is perfectly justified. No mention of the reason they are stealing bread because reminding the population of the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoise is forbidden!
  - voldacar 7y ago
    sir bikes are not bread
    - manicdee 7y ago
      And being non-white doesn’t make you a thief. But sure, focus on the fact that a contractor took two bikes home, and not on the disproportionate response.
  - knzhou 7y ago
    Have you ever lived in these places? I have. Nobody is starving. The place is a little cheap, perhaps, but that means that it's only 10 times richer than what my parents and their parents had growing up -- and they weren't starving either. At the end of the day, I don't think there is a huge moral difference between being 10x richer than a third worlder and 20x.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    Folks doing stuff like stealing bikes aren't just stealing from bourgeoise Facebook people. One of the reasons that regressive policing, etc happen is that "the proletariat" in the community are also sick of having their shit stolen. The (legit) complaints come later.
mindgam3 7y ago
> I don't think there's a difference between ~10,000 residents independently complaining about theft, and Facebook (who hires ~10,000 Menlo Park residents) merely collating them. With respect - if you don’t see a difference between stealing an individual citizen’s bike and stealing one from a fleet owned by a company worth half a trillion dollars, perhaps you should be the one working on critical thinking skills instead of lecturing others.
- ngold 7y ago
  If they like their bikes, secure them.
- jeromic 7y ago
  Legally, I see no difference. It's a matter of equality under the law. Everyone, including corporations, has the same property rights as everyone else, all theft is illegal. This is beneficial for decreasing instability and corruption in a society. I would guess your underlying contention is the wealth disparity, but that is a different issue with better solutions than weakening property rights for rich people or corporations. And prefacing your comment with 'with respect' does not excuse accusing those who disagree with you of having inadequate 'critical thinking skills'.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    Legally doesn't mean anything in this scenario. What you should be doing is looking at how the police execute these things in practice. Which is that typically the police don't give a single shit about stolen bikes or anything like that unless you're rich or, apparently, Facebook. The poor already have weaker property rights than the rich, because if they were to report their bikes as being stolen the police would scoff at them and continue doing jack shit. Or worse, if you're a minority. And generally speaking, Facebook encouraging confrontations with the police which are historically very dangerous for minorities even if they've done absolutely nothing wrong is probably a bad idea.
    - ccvannorman 7y ago
voldacar 7y ago
>neutral things get adjectives slapped onto them This is so common in the news media now. It's like the author has to be so sure that you're feeling the exact emotions that they want you to feel about something that the writing comes off as clumsy and spoonfeedy. NYT is one of the absolute worst offenders, I didn't think Vice was that bad. I guess not
masonic 7y ago
I would be pissed off if the police caught the thief and let him go So would I, given that policy is to not respond at all to simple property crime, even car break-ins. (When it's not Facebook property.) All they do is have you enter a report on their web site and print it for your insurer, if any.

by knzhou 7y ago

RaiseProfits 7y ago

Welcome to corporate media where spin IS the substance! At least it’s not “terrorism”, “democracy”, “national security”, or “freedom” related. Why can’t Facebook keep track of its own bikes? Cops don’t scale like gps does.

knzhou 7y ago
I also object to associating everything bad with "corporations". This particular article is almost falling over with spin because its single author wrote it that way. > Why can’t Facebook keep track of its own bikes? Cops don’t scale like gps does. Things don't magically become easier because you're part of a corporation. Try replacing the word "Facebook" with "10,000 Menlo Park residents", does it still sound obvious how to prevent bike theft? I sure hope when my bike does eventually get stolen, you won't tell me the same thing.

bsanr 7y ago

>This article is an interesting example of using careful wording to paint one side as maximally sympathetic and the other as maximally unsympathetic. It's the kind of thing that should be read in high school classes to help train critical thinking. It's also interesting that your thesis applies to your own comment.

knzhou 7y ago
In the first 2/3 I just list a representative selection of direct quotes. In the last 1/3 I give my opinion and make it clear that it is my personal opinion. That's how journalism should work, my whole point is that it's not how this article works.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  What you're doing is the equivilent of a journalist taking selective quotes out of context in attempt to divert discussion from the actual topic at hand. What you're doing isn't 'journalism', it's diversion. You've managed to bury the lede in your argument by trying to make it about a personal affair ('i would be pissed if my bike was stolen') while ignoring the issues the article brings up related to police racially profiling people (because they believe the minorities are more likely to steal) along with Facebook encouraging a stringent crackdown on people in the area by abusing its size. Do people steal bikes from Facebook? Yes. But you've managed to miss the entire point of the article, which is the racial profiling of people and children over bicycles. Some of these bikes might not even be stolen, just abandoned by Facebook employees treating them as disposable. And regardless, you're treating a multi-billion dollar corporation threatening residents over something that's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of costs to them as being acceptable.
jakeogh 7y ago
It doesn't. It's a exceptionally well thought out comment that provides direct reasoning and examples. If you think it does, then why dont you articulate why?
SheinhardtWigCo 7y ago
Care to elaborate? I see fair criticism being leveled at a trash article. Their comment is much more thoughtful and substantial than yours.

Spooky23 7y ago

There’s an audience for what i call “poverty porn” that attributes a condescending nobility to poverty. End of the day, people are stealing bikes.

manicdee 7y ago
End of the day, they’re stealing bread. Sending them to a prison colony on the other side of the planet is perfectly justified. No mention of the reason they are stealing bread because reminding the population of the exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoise is forbidden!
- voldacar 7y ago
  sir bikes are not bread
  - manicdee 7y ago
    And being non-white doesn’t make you a thief. But sure, focus on the fact that a contractor took two bikes home, and not on the disproportionate response.
- knzhou 7y ago
  Have you ever lived in these places? I have. Nobody is starving. The place is a little cheap, perhaps, but that means that it's only 10 times richer than what my parents and their parents had growing up -- and they weren't starving either. At the end of the day, I don't think there is a huge moral difference between being 10x richer than a third worlder and 20x.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Folks doing stuff like stealing bikes aren't just stealing from bourgeoise Facebook people. One of the reasons that regressive policing, etc happen is that "the proletariat" in the community are also sick of having their shit stolen. The (legit) complaints come later.

mindgam3 7y ago

> I don't think there's a difference between ~10,000 residents independently complaining about theft, and Facebook (who hires ~10,000 Menlo Park residents) merely collating them. With respect - if you don’t see a difference between stealing an individual citizen’s bike and stealing one from a fleet owned by a company worth half a trillion dollars, perhaps you should be the one working on critical thinking skills instead of lecturing others.

ngold 7y ago
If they like their bikes, secure them.
jeromic 7y ago
Legally, I see no difference. It's a matter of equality under the law. Everyone, including corporations, has the same property rights as everyone else, all theft is illegal. This is beneficial for decreasing instability and corruption in a society. I would guess your underlying contention is the wealth disparity, but that is a different issue with better solutions than weakening property rights for rich people or corporations. And prefacing your comment with 'with respect' does not excuse accusing those who disagree with you of having inadequate 'critical thinking skills'.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Legally doesn't mean anything in this scenario. What you should be doing is looking at how the police execute these things in practice. Which is that typically the police don't give a single shit about stolen bikes or anything like that unless you're rich or, apparently, Facebook. The poor already have weaker property rights than the rich, because if they were to report their bikes as being stolen the police would scoff at them and continue doing jack shit. Or worse, if you're a minority. And generally speaking, Facebook encouraging confrontations with the police which are historically very dangerous for minorities even if they've done absolutely nothing wrong is probably a bad idea.
  - ccvannorman 7y ago

voldacar 7y ago

>neutral things get adjectives slapped onto them This is so common in the news media now. It's like the author has to be so sure that you're feeling the exact emotions that they want you to feel about something that the writing comes off as clumsy and spoonfeedy. NYT is one of the absolute worst offenders, I didn't think Vice was that bad. I guess not

masonic 7y ago

I would be pissed off if the police caught the thief and let him go So would I, given that policy is to not respond at all to simple property crime, even car break-ins. (When it's not Facebook property.) All they do is have you enter a report on their web site and print it for your insurer, if any.