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> I for one is not ready to have a bio-centric view if it means I can't provide my kids with all the things that fossil fuels have provided and keep providing f

> I for one is not ready to have a bio-centric view if it means I can't provide my kids with all the things that fossil fuels have provided and keep providing for them. Are you also unwilling to make those sacrifices for the sake of valuing the lives and experiences of humans in every other country as much as the lives and experiences of humans in your own country? I suspect most of us are, since we collectively buy phones made in horrible factory conditions which our own labor laws wouldn't tolerate. I agree that the "natural" thing to do is to value your own species above others, but I think that applies to subdivisions of humans as well, and it gets ugly. It's not a binary thing, human v.s. non-human, it's a set of behaviors on a continuum. We can recognise that we engage in such behavior while still using figures for pollution-related-deaths that include people who work in Foxconn factories, and I don't see why we shouldn't extend the same courtesy to whales. Whales are people too, maaaan.

ThomPete 7y ago
Yes, which is why I want them to keep having access to cheap reliable energy so they can build their way out of poverty. It's exactly not black and white which is my whole point. There are good sides and bad sides to everything we do. The alternative for the people at Foxconn is far worse, just like the alternative to not using fossil fuels is far worse for all humans whether living in developed or developing countries. Anyway, I have lost 30 karma points even having this discussion so this will be my last comment on this.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  > Anyway, I have lost 30 karma points even having this discussion so this will be my last comment on this. FWIW, you seemed polite and coherent to me and I wouldn't have downvoted your post even if I could. I try not to let karma-seeking affect my more serious posts (though I do purposefully take downvotes as a signal of what sorts of humor are acceptable by community standards), and I think it's generally a loss when somebody gets downvoted into oblivion for politely sharing a perspective I disagree with.

ThomPete 7y ago

Yes, which is why I want them to keep having access to cheap reliable energy so they can build their way out of poverty. It's exactly not black and white which is my whole point. There are good sides and bad sides to everything we do. The alternative for the people at Foxconn is far worse, just like the alternative to not using fossil fuels is far worse for all humans whether living in developed or developing countries. Anyway, I have lost 30 karma points even having this discussion so this will be my last comment on this.

blotter_paper 7y ago
> Anyway, I have lost 30 karma points even having this discussion so this will be my last comment on this. FWIW, you seemed polite and coherent to me and I wouldn't have downvoted your post even if I could. I try not to let karma-seeking affect my more serious posts (though I do purposefully take downvotes as a signal of what sorts of humor are acceptable by community standards), and I think it's generally a loss when somebody gets downvoted into oblivion for politely sharing a perspective I disagree with.