7 ms·

Currency is popular again, especially the $100 bill

40 points by ilamont 7y ago

CPLX 7y ago
Interesting topic, but seems like they left out one possible explanation. Things in general are more expensive. So over time usage of higher denomination bills will increase. Eventually a $100 bill is equivalent to what a $20 bill was when I was a kid, and those were common then.
- colinbartlett 7y ago
  This is the main reason I get $2 bills instead $1 bills from my bank now. The latter is a lot more useful for picking something up from the corner store or for a small tip, simply because the value of the dollar bill has gone down.
oh_sigh 7y ago
What's the motivation for a store to not accept cash? Is it possible that cash has a > 3% "fee"(or whatever stores pay for cc processing) when you roll in cash registers, armored car services, employee handling time, theft, etc?
- undefined3840 7y ago
  Pretty much
- mod 7y ago
  From the article: "Businesses are experimenting with going cashless, hoping to speed up transactions, combat theft and create a safer environment for their employees." As the owner of a brick and mortar business (a bar), I can tell you that we do about 60% cash transactions. I just put in an ATM to try to up that number. I'm tired of paying close to 3% fees on cards. We have had some cash theft from employees but to eliminate that would require 100% credit, which isn't an option for me. A big part of our clientele is service industry, and they're bringing in their cash tips and spending them.
  - RandallBrown 7y ago
    I never thought about cashless places doing it because they were worried about theft from employees. I assumed it was to prevent thieves from coming in and robbing the place. (Makes total sense though that employees would be much more likely to do the stealing)
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      My grandfather owned bars and would fire any honest bartender. His philosophy was that a bartender who wasn’t stealing was smarter than he was.
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Probably start up business or popups who might not qualify for traditional banking or don't wasn't to go through the hoops.
- analog31 7y ago
  Indeed, some of those things are fixed costs, that might be hard to justify if cash has dwindled to a small percentage of sales. You still have to maintain (i.e., probably rent) a cash register, even if it contains no cash.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  No. Cash is cheap. Losses were around 0.1% and costs were <1% when I did retail eons ago. Might be higher in risky environments due to insurance, worker’s compensation, etc.
undefined3840 7y ago
It’s somewhat ironic that the people I know who are into crypto are somewhat more likely to use cash than your average person for privacy reasons...
- phyzome 7y ago
  Yeah, exactly. I take out $400 at a time on an ATM and then use it at farmers markets and stores over the next few weeks. I only use my credit card for refilling my transit pass, online ordering, and medical bill pay. No one needs to have a full record of every purchase I make in real time.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- altacc 7y ago
  There's another commenter below confirming this. The article mentions criminals switching to crypto, which misses out those with an increasing mistrust of financial institutions who prefer crypto. I wonder if the criminal use case has not been reduced that much by crypto, as I imagine cold hard cash that's acceptable anywhere globally is preferable. Crypto may be good for some transactions, but cash will be king for a long time yet.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    That part of the article made no sense. Most crypto currency is entirely traceable. It's literally an immutable distributed ledger of every transaction ever made. Sure there are things like tumblers that try to redistribute coins, but who knows how well they actually work.
    - undefined3840 7y ago
      Depends on how you use it. If you own your own private keys and aren’t transacting from a hot wallet like Coinbase then yes your transactions are public but your identity is not tied to your address
chabes 7y ago
I closed my bank accounts in 2011. Cash is my currency of choice for most things. I use bitcoin for long term savings. Cold storage is safer than a bunch of cash under the mattress.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  There is a strong use case for that, for my personal spending and utilities it would be very inconvenient for me to convert cryptocurrency to cash without an intermediary bank account. but business-wise many of my vendors have been able and willing to take cryptocurrency especially in the last 3 years. I've executed many legal agreements paid in crypto. Its made it extremely practical for Americans to have offshore corporations again since the bank account part became difficult but is no longer needed for international commerce and asset holdings.
  - fennecfoxen 7y ago
    Yeah, those routine inflationary / deflationary episodes that can see the Bitcoin-denominated price of your services (just to use an example) rise and fall by 400% in a year, easily? Very practical! These intermediate bank accounts will soon be a thing of the past.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      > the Bitcoin-denominated price of your services (just to use an example) rise and fall by 400% in a year Yeah its a bad example because thats not whats happening at all. Criticisms are possible but yours are so far off that I guess these are called weak strawman arguments? I don't think this was intentional as its seems more like a precompiled argument that isn't really a response to this situation so I will tell you my experience with international vendors: When legal contracts are executed a payment method and pricing index is determined. The payment itself does not take a year and there is usually no catalog of goods and services that are "bitcoin-denominated", for our agreements. When the actual payment occurs we use the agreed upon index to use the dollar price, paid in crypto and this takes a few seconds to execute and even in the volatile crypto markets usually nothing is happening in this time frame. The cryptos typically involve: Bitcoin most frequently using Tradeblock's XBX index, or CME's index, or Coinmarketcap Ethereum most frequently using Coinmarketcap, and lately Tradeblock's ETX index random token that one of us has large consolidated ownership of stablecoin like DAI, USDC, Tether This is conceptually no different than any legal contract that use shares for payment. You get a glimpse of this common transaction method when companies are acquired for "cash and stock". For the recipient, it is all about the tolerance of liquidity. There is a curve of liquidity for different asset classes, with US treasuries and non interest bearing dollars being the most liquid on the planet, and a different velocity of liquidity needs for recipients. In a different use case that uses stablecoins there are no price fluctuations and no index price negotiations involved. Its been more convenient for some of our non-US businesses because it is difficult for banks to open bank accounts when the beneficial signers are Americans. This is due to FATCA and the high compliance burden for non-US banks, as well as FBAR filings for the US person. But the whole concept of bank accounts have been leapfrogged and international commerce continues unabated.
edoo 7y ago
The $100 bill would obviously be more popular nowadays. For a lot of people on here, since they were kids, the purchasing power of that $100 has fallen to about $50. You have to carry twice as much currency to carry the same amount of purchasing power around.
- pochamago 7y ago
  I wonder if it's time for a $200 bill
furyofantares 7y ago
I use cash primarily because I enjoy promiscuous arithmetic with strangers
- phyzome 7y ago
  It's good practice for your math skills, too! Cashier: "That will be $3.86" Me: [hands over a $5 bill, a dime, and a penny] Cashier: "..." Cashier: "..." Cashier: [hands back a dollar and a quarter]
seibelj 7y ago
Every time you swipe your credit card innumerable processes and algorithms begin to parse and reevaluate your personality profile. Every purchase you make changes their opinion and assessment of your shopping habits and needs. Google may start showing ads for pet food if you bought something at PetSmart. Your bank may start sending you car loan ads if you spend at the repair shop. Everything has a side effect. Cash is great because it is very simple. I gave you money for product, no one knows anything else. Sometimes it’s nice not to be data mined for buying a cup of coffee.
- scottLobster 7y ago
  Yeah, but I get paid for that in a combination of cash back and points. I limit my credit card information sharing as much as the privacy preferences allow, but I'm not about to give up hundreds or thousands of dollars a year in value because Google might show me an ad I won't click on anyway.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    I had the same concern and tracked it. In my family’s case, making cash our primary spending vehicle reduced our 2018 spending 7% vs 2017 when we were card focused. The value of the credit card point is about 2% best case. Points exist to create a fomo attachment to the card.
    - ellisv 7y ago
      Was this because of using cash or simply paying more attention to spending? I’d love to see a well done research paper to get a sense of the expected value of cash vs credit.
      - lawn 7y ago
        Not the commenter but I had the same experience changing from debit card to credit card. Even though I always paid off everything at the end of the month, I'm now buying more things simply because it's so easy. Before I only had smaller amounts on my debit card, so if I wanted to buy stuff online I had to first move money from another account. This extra step made me more conscious of my spending and I would imagine starting to use cash would have a similar effect.
sys_64738 7y ago
I've never had a 100$ bill and find 50$ bills are frowned on in retail. I carry a few 20$ bills just in case Apple Pay is not accepted.
- AlexAltea 7y ago
  > 50$ bills are frowned on in retail Where would that be? On every trip to the US I have exchanged cash, EUR to USD, resulting in mostly $100 bills which I've used everywhere, sometimes even for rather small purchases, and there's been no frown upon that (after few purchases I also get my hands on smaller bills which are also more convenient).
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Maybe it depends on where you are making your purchases, but I've rarely seen a $50 bill unwelcome at retail in Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, or the office park neighbourhoods of California.
darkmoney007 7y ago
I also believe people are more conscious of their spending habits being sold by everyone. The most anonymous way is cash. Cash is King.
analog31 7y ago
>>>> One recent study, by a pair of economists in Asia, found a link to aging populations. It seems that older folks — perhaps because they’re less inclined to trust numbers on a screen — have a greater affinity for cash. It may also be harder to be swindled out of your money by telemarketers, if you ditch your credit cards. And dealing with anything online or on a phone can be physically laborious and error prone for the elderly -- then you have to re-learn it when it changes. For me, cash is actually a hassle. As a part time musician, I occasionally get paid in cash -- often a $100 bill, preferably but rarely more -- and then I have to deal with the bills and coins until it's finally spent.
mnm1 7y ago
After hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, the blackout lasted for months. I assume no one was getting any money out of ATMs or using credit/debit cards or Apple pay or anything like that. You don't have to distrust the financial system to want cash on hand. You just need to have a rudimentary understanding of the fragility of the current system. I simply cannot see a cash less society ever existing while the only alternative is powered by electricity. Electricity can fail way to easily.
- Aloha 7y ago
  This is the biggest reason I keep cash around. Also, I travel on business frequently, I have my wallet and a passport wallet, and I keep some cash in each - in the passport wallet enough to get a cab out of the airport to a hotel, where presumably I can garner a room using my rewards points or have my company wire me money.
- chiph 7y ago
  I keep a few hundred with my hurricane supplies. After Hugo, I was without power for 10 days (which is nothing compared to what PR went through), and having some cash on hand would have made that time easier.
- samsonradu 7y ago
  After the hurricane, for the next 2-3 days there were no working ATMs (that we found) in San Juan. Luckily, we had around 120$ in cash handy which we carefully spent. After that we had to queue up for 1h+ in the torrid sun at one of the few ATMs which had any cash. If I remember well there was a limit of 100$ withdrawal.
lordleft 7y ago
Paying for various expenses with apple pay feels downright magical. I love it and use it constantly. But I don't want currency to go away outright. There are definite perks. The biggest one for me is that I'm much more cognizant of much I'm spending when I have a physical representation of my money in my pocket. I'm less inclined to overspend when I have physical cash.
neonate 7y ago
http://archive.is/tM2oW http://archive.is/tM2oW

40 points by ilamont 7y ago

CPLX 7y ago

Interesting topic, but seems like they left out one possible explanation. Things in general are more expensive. So over time usage of higher denomination bills will increase. Eventually a $100 bill is equivalent to what a $20 bill was when I was a kid, and those were common then.

colinbartlett 7y ago
This is the main reason I get $2 bills instead $1 bills from my bank now. The latter is a lot more useful for picking something up from the corner store or for a small tip, simply because the value of the dollar bill has gone down.

oh_sigh 7y ago

What's the motivation for a store to not accept cash? Is it possible that cash has a > 3% "fee"(or whatever stores pay for cc processing) when you roll in cash registers, armored car services, employee handling time, theft, etc?

undefined3840 7y ago
Pretty much
mod 7y ago
From the article: "Businesses are experimenting with going cashless, hoping to speed up transactions, combat theft and create a safer environment for their employees." As the owner of a brick and mortar business (a bar), I can tell you that we do about 60% cash transactions. I just put in an ATM to try to up that number. I'm tired of paying close to 3% fees on cards. We have had some cash theft from employees but to eliminate that would require 100% credit, which isn't an option for me. A big part of our clientele is service industry, and they're bringing in their cash tips and spending them.
- RandallBrown 7y ago
  I never thought about cashless places doing it because they were worried about theft from employees. I assumed it was to prevent thieves from coming in and robbing the place. (Makes total sense though that employees would be much more likely to do the stealing)
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    My grandfather owned bars and would fire any honest bartender. His philosophy was that a bartender who wasn’t stealing was smarter than he was.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Probably start up business or popups who might not qualify for traditional banking or don't wasn't to go through the hoops.
analog31 7y ago
Indeed, some of those things are fixed costs, that might be hard to justify if cash has dwindled to a small percentage of sales. You still have to maintain (i.e., probably rent) a cash register, even if it contains no cash.
Spooky23 7y ago
No. Cash is cheap. Losses were around 0.1% and costs were <1% when I did retail eons ago. Might be higher in risky environments due to insurance, worker’s compensation, etc.

undefined3840 7y ago

It’s somewhat ironic that the people I know who are into crypto are somewhat more likely to use cash than your average person for privacy reasons...

phyzome 7y ago
Yeah, exactly. I take out $400 at a time on an ATM and then use it at farmers markets and stores over the next few weeks. I only use my credit card for refilling my transit pass, online ordering, and medical bill pay. No one needs to have a full record of every purchase I make in real time.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
altacc 7y ago
There's another commenter below confirming this. The article mentions criminals switching to crypto, which misses out those with an increasing mistrust of financial institutions who prefer crypto. I wonder if the criminal use case has not been reduced that much by crypto, as I imagine cold hard cash that's acceptable anywhere globally is preferable. Crypto may be good for some transactions, but cash will be king for a long time yet.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  That part of the article made no sense. Most crypto currency is entirely traceable. It's literally an immutable distributed ledger of every transaction ever made. Sure there are things like tumblers that try to redistribute coins, but who knows how well they actually work.
  - undefined3840 7y ago
    Depends on how you use it. If you own your own private keys and aren’t transacting from a hot wallet like Coinbase then yes your transactions are public but your identity is not tied to your address

chabes 7y ago

I closed my bank accounts in 2011. Cash is my currency of choice for most things. I use bitcoin for long term savings. Cold storage is safer than a bunch of cash under the mattress.

rolltiide 7y ago
There is a strong use case for that, for my personal spending and utilities it would be very inconvenient for me to convert cryptocurrency to cash without an intermediary bank account. but business-wise many of my vendors have been able and willing to take cryptocurrency especially in the last 3 years. I've executed many legal agreements paid in crypto. Its made it extremely practical for Americans to have offshore corporations again since the bank account part became difficult but is no longer needed for international commerce and asset holdings.
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
  Yeah, those routine inflationary / deflationary episodes that can see the Bitcoin-denominated price of your services (just to use an example) rise and fall by 400% in a year, easily? Very practical! These intermediate bank accounts will soon be a thing of the past.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    > the Bitcoin-denominated price of your services (just to use an example) rise and fall by 400% in a year Yeah its a bad example because thats not whats happening at all. Criticisms are possible but yours are so far off that I guess these are called weak strawman arguments? I don't think this was intentional as its seems more like a precompiled argument that isn't really a response to this situation so I will tell you my experience with international vendors: When legal contracts are executed a payment method and pricing index is determined. The payment itself does not take a year and there is usually no catalog of goods and services that are "bitcoin-denominated", for our agreements. When the actual payment occurs we use the agreed upon index to use the dollar price, paid in crypto and this takes a few seconds to execute and even in the volatile crypto markets usually nothing is happening in this time frame. The cryptos typically involve: Bitcoin most frequently using Tradeblock's XBX index, or CME's index, or Coinmarketcap Ethereum most frequently using Coinmarketcap, and lately Tradeblock's ETX index random token that one of us has large consolidated ownership of stablecoin like DAI, USDC, Tether This is conceptually no different than any legal contract that use shares for payment. You get a glimpse of this common transaction method when companies are acquired for "cash and stock". For the recipient, it is all about the tolerance of liquidity. There is a curve of liquidity for different asset classes, with US treasuries and non interest bearing dollars being the most liquid on the planet, and a different velocity of liquidity needs for recipients. In a different use case that uses stablecoins there are no price fluctuations and no index price negotiations involved. Its been more convenient for some of our non-US businesses because it is difficult for banks to open bank accounts when the beneficial signers are Americans. This is due to FATCA and the high compliance burden for non-US banks, as well as FBAR filings for the US person. But the whole concept of bank accounts have been leapfrogged and international commerce continues unabated.

edoo 7y ago

The $100 bill would obviously be more popular nowadays. For a lot of people on here, since they were kids, the purchasing power of that $100 has fallen to about $50. You have to carry twice as much currency to carry the same amount of purchasing power around.

pochamago 7y ago
I wonder if it's time for a $200 bill

furyofantares 7y ago

I use cash primarily because I enjoy promiscuous arithmetic with strangers

phyzome 7y ago
It's good practice for your math skills, too! Cashier: "That will be $3.86" Me: [hands over a $5 bill, a dime, and a penny] Cashier: "..." Cashier: "..." Cashier: [hands back a dollar and a quarter]

seibelj 7y ago

Every time you swipe your credit card innumerable processes and algorithms begin to parse and reevaluate your personality profile. Every purchase you make changes their opinion and assessment of your shopping habits and needs. Google may start showing ads for pet food if you bought something at PetSmart. Your bank may start sending you car loan ads if you spend at the repair shop. Everything has a side effect. Cash is great because it is very simple. I gave you money for product, no one knows anything else. Sometimes it’s nice not to be data mined for buying a cup of coffee.

scottLobster 7y ago
Yeah, but I get paid for that in a combination of cash back and points. I limit my credit card information sharing as much as the privacy preferences allow, but I'm not about to give up hundreds or thousands of dollars a year in value because Google might show me an ad I won't click on anyway.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  I had the same concern and tracked it. In my family’s case, making cash our primary spending vehicle reduced our 2018 spending 7% vs 2017 when we were card focused. The value of the credit card point is about 2% best case. Points exist to create a fomo attachment to the card.
  - ellisv 7y ago
    Was this because of using cash or simply paying more attention to spending? I’d love to see a well done research paper to get a sense of the expected value of cash vs credit.
    - lawn 7y ago
      Not the commenter but I had the same experience changing from debit card to credit card. Even though I always paid off everything at the end of the month, I'm now buying more things simply because it's so easy. Before I only had smaller amounts on my debit card, so if I wanted to buy stuff online I had to first move money from another account. This extra step made me more conscious of my spending and I would imagine starting to use cash would have a similar effect.

sys_64738 7y ago

I've never had a 100$ bill and find 50$ bills are frowned on in retail. I carry a few 20$ bills just in case Apple Pay is not accepted.

AlexAltea 7y ago
> 50$ bills are frowned on in retail Where would that be? On every trip to the US I have exchanged cash, EUR to USD, resulting in mostly $100 bills which I've used everywhere, sometimes even for rather small purchases, and there's been no frown upon that (after few purchases I also get my hands on smaller bills which are also more convenient).
microcolonel 7y ago
Maybe it depends on where you are making your purchases, but I've rarely seen a $50 bill unwelcome at retail in Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, or the office park neighbourhoods of California.

darkmoney007 7y ago

I also believe people are more conscious of their spending habits being sold by everyone. The most anonymous way is cash. Cash is King.

analog31 7y ago

>>>> One recent study, by a pair of economists in Asia, found a link to aging populations. It seems that older folks — perhaps because they’re less inclined to trust numbers on a screen — have a greater affinity for cash. It may also be harder to be swindled out of your money by telemarketers, if you ditch your credit cards. And dealing with anything online or on a phone can be physically laborious and error prone for the elderly -- then you have to re-learn it when it changes. For me, cash is actually a hassle. As a part time musician, I occasionally get paid in cash -- often a $100 bill, preferably but rarely more -- and then I have to deal with the bills and coins until it's finally spent.

mnm1 7y ago

After hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, the blackout lasted for months. I assume no one was getting any money out of ATMs or using credit/debit cards or Apple pay or anything like that. You don't have to distrust the financial system to want cash on hand. You just need to have a rudimentary understanding of the fragility of the current system. I simply cannot see a cash less society ever existing while the only alternative is powered by electricity. Electricity can fail way to easily.

Aloha 7y ago
This is the biggest reason I keep cash around. Also, I travel on business frequently, I have my wallet and a passport wallet, and I keep some cash in each - in the passport wallet enough to get a cab out of the airport to a hotel, where presumably I can garner a room using my rewards points or have my company wire me money.
chiph 7y ago
I keep a few hundred with my hurricane supplies. After Hugo, I was without power for 10 days (which is nothing compared to what PR went through), and having some cash on hand would have made that time easier.
samsonradu 7y ago
After the hurricane, for the next 2-3 days there were no working ATMs (that we found) in San Juan. Luckily, we had around 120$ in cash handy which we carefully spent. After that we had to queue up for 1h+ in the torrid sun at one of the few ATMs which had any cash. If I remember well there was a limit of 100$ withdrawal.

lordleft 7y ago

Paying for various expenses with apple pay feels downright magical. I love it and use it constantly. But I don't want currency to go away outright. There are definite perks. The biggest one for me is that I'm much more cognizant of much I'm spending when I have a physical representation of my money in my pocket. I'm less inclined to overspend when I have physical cash.

neonate 7y ago

http://archive.is/tM2oW http://archive.is/tM2oW