4 ms·

How is your comment relevant? Smith's words are extremely apt here, and don't speak to a "free market" ideology at all.

wmeredith 7y ago
I think that IS the the point
bnegreve 7y ago
Quotes are made by people and it is often relevant to know who these people were to understand the quote. It applies in this particular case: I'm not very familiar with Smith's work, and I am a bit puzzled that this quote is from him.
- dnautics 7y ago
  It's totally adam smith, also the author of "the theory of moral sentiment" which is a fantastic exposition about why as societies we coordinate our morals and ethics. "Free market type"s are often the first to complain about regulatory capture.
mpweiher 7y ago
Guessing: the comment you replied to was referring to those who do not include the words quoted here
andrewflnr 7y ago
Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I think that quote is in general extremely apt for free market ideology. Businesses don't like free markets as much as they like markets tilted in their own favor. If you want an actual free market, you have to watch out for businesses trying to break it through legislation.
- njacobs5074 7y ago
  I thought that the “free” in “free markets” meant that corporations are free to do what they want.
  - ahartmetz 7y ago
    Yes.
  - stuaxo 7y ago
    That's how it's interpreted, but of course it is the opposite of a free market as it means they are free to stop new entrants into that very same market.
  - marvin 7y ago
    Not an economist, but I rather figured it means that markets are regulated in a way that properly allows and encourages competition. No monopolies, no anti-competitive practices, no pricing or wage collusion, no regulatory capture etc. I'm sure this can be interpreted in as many ways as there are special interest groups, though. E.g, radically, labor markets in the absence of a basic income system are not really free, since employees starve and lose their homes if they do not accept the best available offer. Hence companies' competition for paid labor is not really free, and most groups have an existential threat if they do not accept the terms of the employers that are willing to employ them. There are a million aspects to this that I'm not an expert in, but many of the "free market" principles are considered in the context of contrasting a market economy vs. a planned economy.
    - x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
      Well, maybe. In common discourse, "free market" is used to downplay the need for government regulation concerning things like labor rights, pollution and anti-consumer/predatory behavior.
  - goatlover 7y ago
    Which means Adam Smith was not a proponent of "free markets".
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    No. Use of fraud and force is not part of a free market. A free market also requires a disinterested system of contracts and enforcement of those contracts in order to work, which is what the government is needed to provide. Free market means people can voluntarily engage in transactions without the government interfering in those transactions, such as when the government sets the price of some good.
- ahartmetz 7y ago
  I put the scare quotes around "free market" because the usual selective Adam Smith quote is used to support no regulation (selectively) for the benefit of corporations, usually a certain corporation or group of corporations.
  - andrewflnr 7y ago
    Um, right. AFAICT Adam Smith was a principled free market thinker (the quote above only confirms it in my view), as opposed to the ones who only claim to be free-marketeers. I think you always have to distinguish between the actual free-market ideas vs the self-motivated people selectively using "free-market" buzzphrases for their own ends, where "free-market" can be substituted with almost any ideology you can think of. I felt the comment I was replying to conflated the two.

I think that IS the the point

Quotes are made by people and it is often relevant to know who these people were to understand the quote. It applies in this particular case: I'm not very familiar with Smith's work, and I am a bit puzzled that this quote is from him.

dnautics 7y ago
It's totally adam smith, also the author of "the theory of moral sentiment" which is a fantastic exposition about why as societies we coordinate our morals and ethics. "Free market type"s are often the first to complain about regulatory capture.

mpweiher 7y ago

Guessing: the comment you replied to was referring to those who do not include the words quoted here

andrewflnr 7y ago

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I think that quote is in general extremely apt for free market ideology. Businesses don't like free markets as much as they like markets tilted in their own favor. If you want an actual free market, you have to watch out for businesses trying to break it through legislation.

njacobs5074 7y ago
I thought that the “free” in “free markets” meant that corporations are free to do what they want.
- ahartmetz 7y ago
  Yes.
- stuaxo 7y ago
  That's how it's interpreted, but of course it is the opposite of a free market as it means they are free to stop new entrants into that very same market.
- marvin 7y ago
  Not an economist, but I rather figured it means that markets are regulated in a way that properly allows and encourages competition. No monopolies, no anti-competitive practices, no pricing or wage collusion, no regulatory capture etc. I'm sure this can be interpreted in as many ways as there are special interest groups, though. E.g, radically, labor markets in the absence of a basic income system are not really free, since employees starve and lose their homes if they do not accept the best available offer. Hence companies' competition for paid labor is not really free, and most groups have an existential threat if they do not accept the terms of the employers that are willing to employ them. There are a million aspects to this that I'm not an expert in, but many of the "free market" principles are considered in the context of contrasting a market economy vs. a planned economy.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
    Well, maybe. In common discourse, "free market" is used to downplay the need for government regulation concerning things like labor rights, pollution and anti-consumer/predatory behavior.
- goatlover 7y ago
  Which means Adam Smith was not a proponent of "free markets".
- WalterBright 7y ago
  No. Use of fraud and force is not part of a free market. A free market also requires a disinterested system of contracts and enforcement of those contracts in order to work, which is what the government is needed to provide. Free market means people can voluntarily engage in transactions without the government interfering in those transactions, such as when the government sets the price of some good.
ahartmetz 7y ago
I put the scare quotes around "free market" because the usual selective Adam Smith quote is used to support no regulation (selectively) for the benefit of corporations, usually a certain corporation or group of corporations.
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  Um, right. AFAICT Adam Smith was a principled free market thinker (the quote above only confirms it in my view), as opposed to the ones who only claim to be free-marketeers. I think you always have to distinguish between the actual free-market ideas vs the self-motivated people selectively using "free-market" buzzphrases for their own ends, where "free-market" can be substituted with almost any ideology you can think of. I felt the comment I was replying to conflated the two.